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Old 05-02-2010, 03:02 PM   #1776
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

packy agreed to much more stringent testing it's when floyd wanted stuff that he knew pack-man would never agree to it due to his beliefs that things got silly on PBF's side.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:35 PM   #1777
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I saw the fight last night at the theater. I was rooting for Mosley. If anyone thinks that Pac Man can/will beat Mayweather they are delusional. Mayweather will never lose unless he keeps boxing when he is 50 years old.

Mayweather is sooo strong to go along with his other magnificent skills. He will destroy PacMan.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:35 PM   #1778
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

already proven that floyd using drugs to help his hands.

http://www.examiner.com/x-10947-Fili...enhancing-drug
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:40 PM   #1779
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I saw the fight last night at the theater. I was rooting for Mosley. If anyone thinks that Pac Man can/will beat Mayweather they are delusional. Mayweather will never lose unless he keeps boxing when he is 50 years old.

Mayweather is sooo strong to go along with his other magnificent skills. He will destroy PacMan.
what did last night really prove? if mayweather is 100% confident that he will never lose the fight (something not obviously true) he would 100% accept the fight. even if he isn't 100% but near 100% he would 100% accept the fight.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:45 PM   #1780
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Floyd is too scared to fight Manny, that's the bottom line. Floyd's legacy will be tarnished of he doesn't man up and fight Manny. Floyd is full of excuses and full of BS. Manny would destroy Floyd easily which is why Floyd is too scared to fight him
wtf are u smoking ?? if/when they fight, i will be willing to bet every dime to my name on mayweather.... easy money.

mayweather is damn near perfect as a fighter. show me a weakness. he is strong, fast, has great d, a solid chin, in great condition etc. he is stronger than pac man, faster than pac man, has better d than pac man. mayweather will be the bigger stronger man and will be the one backing pac man up. pac man is not nearly as effective when he is backing up.

easy money mayweather.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:50 PM   #1781
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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If you want to get on Pac for not supporting heavier testing before, fair enough, but the idea that PBF is some crusader for justice just doesn't hold water. If you want to raise the level of testing because the issue matters to you, then that's great, but you need to behave in such a way that that's plausible.

From your first fight to your last fight, submit to higher testing yourself and ask that others to as well. That makes it awful hard to accuse a boxer of using the testing as an excuse.



Wat

If someone said "A-rod used steroids in the early 2000s because X" Where "X" is some sort of proof be in increase in muscle mass or a trainer/player saying he injected him, etc. then they have a theory and a reason to believe. If they just say it without reason to suspect other than "He plays sports at a high level" then you're just throwing accusations around. That's not what's going on though, seemingly absent any evidence, Pac gets raked across the coals and PBF finds a heart in regards to the steroid issue.
I don't think Mayweather is a plausible crusader. I think they are both likely not completely clean. Just in a world that were they are both clean, Mayweather is way more right than Pacman. Things you are saying, makes it so that Mayweather would not be completely without fault, but that doesn't make him wrong. But since I think they are both using and playing games, I am not outraged either way.

Speculating based on muscle mass, etc. requires way more handwaving that common sense judging of performances. My reasoning for thinking that Arod was not clean was because he was dominating pitchers who were using and vastly outperforming peer hitters who were also using. He was putting up historically great numbers that rivaled everyone but Babe Ruth in an era where it was implausible for someone to do so naturally. Same applies here. I find it high unlikely that we could be just stumble upon two boxers who are naturally putting up performances that rank them among the GOAT when we know their peers are using PEDs, especially when the incentive system and current drug testing structure begs them to use PEDs. Of course you can call that speculation, don't know why that is a dirty word though, I think of it more as using common sense.
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:11 PM   #1782
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

For a brief moment in my house in the 2nd rd last, as I suspect many across the planet did also, we rose to our feet in shock and disbelief. And the following happened as PBF then hung on for dear life, whilst seemingly stepping off of curbs that didn't exist...

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Old 05-02-2010, 04:15 PM   #1783
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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For a brief moment in my house in the 2nd rd last, as I suspect many across the planet did also, we rose to our feet in shock and disbelief. And the following happened as PBF then hung on for dear life, whilst seemingly stepping off of curbs that didn't exist...

for all of 5 seconds i was hoping mosley was gonna ko him, then i thought this is not what i waited up until 4-30am to see 2 rounds, and ending the prospect of seeing Floyd V Pacman.

great recovery from floyd and very very ez winner in the end.

i liked how he stepped forward at mosley and did not try his hit n run game, and with the talent floyd has he does not need to run from anyone (nor has he ever needed to use the hit n run, it sucks imo).
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:18 PM   #1784
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

sick chin to survive that
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:22 PM   #1785
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I don't think Mayweather is a plausible crusader. I think they are both likely not completely clean. Just in a world that were they are both clean, Mayweather is way more right than Pacman. Things you are saying, makes it so that Mayweather would not be completely without fault, but that doesn't make him wrong. But since I think they are both using and playing games, I am not outraged either way.

Speculating based on muscle mass, etc. requires way more handwaving that common sense judging of performances. My reasoning for thinking that Arod was not clean was because he was dominating pitchers who were using and vastly outperforming peer hitters who were also using. He was putting up historically great numbers that rivaled everyone but Babe Ruth in an era where it was implausible for someone to do so naturally. Same applies here. I find it high unlikely that we could be just stumble upon two boxers who are naturally putting up performances that rank them among the GOAT when we know their peers are using PEDs, especially when the incentive system and current drug testing structure begs them to use PEDs. Of course you can call that speculation, don't know why that is a dirty word though, I think of it more as using common sense.
The problem with that attitude, and the presumption of guilt, is that it's almost impossible to disprove. Neither Pac nor PBF can possibly demonstrate that they've never used steroids as there's always a possible excuse ("Oh he just covered it up" "Oh the test just missed it", etc.).

There's nothing wrong with suspicion, especially in the presence of some amount of evidence, but a position that "They're great = They're roided" isn't fair to the fighters, nor is it useful in a debate.

Is it fair to say LeBron is on roids because he's a physical freak? Is it fair to say Pujols is on roids because of what he's done. If anything, Pujols stands no chance given what his contemporaries have done, but there's still not one shred of evidence to convict him in any court including public opinion.

Innocent until proven otherwise is far superior than its opposite because it precludes a simple "Boxers stand to make a lot of money; that's motive; he's guilty" leap.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:39 PM   #1786
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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wtf are u smoking ?? if/when they fight, i will be willing to bet every dime to my name on mayweather.... easy money.

mayweather is damn near perfect as a fighter. show me a weakness. he is strong, fast, has great d, a solid chin, in great condition etc. he is stronger than pac man, faster than pac man, has better d than pac man. mayweather will be the bigger stronger man and will be the one backing pac man up. pac man is not nearly as effective when he is backing up.

easy money mayweather.
will you be willing to give me a trillion to one odds? no way pacman will win, obviously free money for you. you are way overrating how good mayweather is. he hasn't really fought anyone that great near their prime. the fight should be close between packman and mayweather if it's near their respective primes.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:43 PM   #1787
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Anyone (YB2009) who has this idealized view of their sport at the top level is just out of touch with reality and economics. The arguments for Mayweather doing this out of genuine concern are so convoluted and have to assume he's from such an unlikely to exist segment of the population (non cheaters who don't realize other people cheat) that its basically guessing at theoretical motivations that could exist.

PS: No one takes steroids for aerobic performance. Its to improve recovery. In the same way that baseball players take them. Please don't correct me with errors. kthxbai

Baseball players take them to get big and strong.

Pitchers take them to get big legs.

Cyclists take PED's to increase stamina not to recover from the training. This is not achieved thorough muscular endurance, but from the body being able to use more oxygen in the blood stream.

Explain how that is not aerobic performance.

And if you are going to try to wordplay me with steroids and PED's aren't the same or whatever, don't even bother.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:57 PM   #1788
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I don't get why everyone's saying that Mayweather's ducking Pac-Man asking for the heavier testing. Why is this all on him? Isn't it at least as much on Pac-Man? Even if they are both on PEDs or whatever, setting up the fight so that they both have to get off the roids for a while should still be completely fair to both sides.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:59 PM   #1789
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Mayweather is great and certainly the better fighter, but Mosley gave a very poor performance. I
he's 38 and he went for broke when given the opportunity. He was gassed after round 2. His strategy was probably optimal. He's not beating PBF on points. He got a good shot in and had to either KO him or hurt him bad enough to give him a shot.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:02 PM   #1790
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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The problem with that attitude, and the presumption of guilt, is that it's almost impossible to disprove. Neither Pac nor PBF can possibly demonstrate that they've never used steroids as there's always a possible excuse ("Oh he just covered it up" "Oh the test just missed it", etc.).

There's nothing wrong with suspicion, especially in the presence of some amount of evidence, but a position that "They're great = They're roided" isn't fair to the fighters, nor is it useful in a debate.

Is it fair to say LeBron is on roids because he's a physical freak? Is it fair to say Pujols is on roids because of what he's done. If anything, Pujols stands no chance given what his contemporaries have done, but there's still not one shred of evidence to convict him in any court including public opinion.

Innocent until proven otherwise is far superior than its opposite because it precludes a simple "Boxers stand to make a lot of money; that's motive; he's guilty" leap.
Obviously its not fair, but how does that make it more likely that they are not using? It is the most logical position to take and that simple sentence you end with is too powerful to ignore. It has been proven correct time and time again, such that even optimists can no longer ignore it and have to just throw up their hands and say I don't care if they are using, just entertain me. The innocent until proven otherwise standard is for putting somebody in jail or voiding their contract or doing something that affects them directly, not for forming your opinion on what is happening.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:07 PM   #1791
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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he's 38 and he went for broke when given the opportunity. He was gassed after round 2. His strategy was probably optimal. He's not beating PBF on points. He got a good shot in and had to either KO him or hurt him bad enough to give him a shot.
I was extremely surprised at how gassed Mosley looked was after 2 rounds. He had NOTHING after wards. This is a guy that always in the gym and always in incredible shape.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:10 PM   #1792
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

he's 38!
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:34 PM   #1793
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I don't get why everyone's saying that Mayweather's ducking Pac-Man asking for the heavier testing. Why is this all on him? Isn't it at least as much on Pac-Man? Even if they are both on PEDs or whatever, setting up the fight so that they both have to get off the roids for a while should still be completely fair to both sides.
why is mayweather purposesfully requesting certain testing that he knows pac-man won't accept. pac was willing to accept some further testing but not needling him a couple of weeks before the fight. i guess pac-man could be faking this issue because he's doping but he's expressed issues with this before this fight.
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:30 PM   #1794
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I don't get why everyone's saying that Mayweather's ducking Pac-Man asking for the heavier testing. Why is this all on him? Isn't it at least as much on Pac-Man? Even if they are both on PEDs or whatever, setting up the fight so that they both have to get off the roids for a while should still be completely fair to both sides.
Covered earlier ITT, but it's what was requested that's the issue. PBF asked for stricter testing and that was agreed to, but he wanted testing done up to 14 days prior to the fight, which Pac wouldn't agree too, asking instead for a limit of 30 days prior.

If you like PBF, you'll say Pac is on PEDs. If you like Pac, you'll say PBF is ducking him.

I think objectively, PBF asked for something that surely his camp knew Pac would either 1) Not accept or 2) Accept but cause Pac to be mentally out of sorts prior to the fight.

We can all laugh at the idea that having blood drawn 14 days prior to the bell will make Pac a physically weaker fighter and that his belief that it will is silly, but he believes it none the less, so it will affect him.

There's no real gain for "fairness" if the blood testing is moved 2 weeks closer as it's not likely to catch anything more anyway, but it was a decent pysch-out move by PBF's camp. His bluff didn't work, now let's get in the ring.
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:21 PM   #1795
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Pacquiao, who watched the fight in the Philippines, told Manilla radio station DZBB that he would agree to blood testing, but only if it is not taken within 24 days of the fight. That is basically the same stance that derailed the fight the first time around.

“For me, as long as the drug test is not done close to the match, I’ll agree because if they’ll get blood from me close to the match, it will be a disadvantage for me because I’m smaller and he’s big,” Pacquiao said.


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Old 05-02-2010, 08:41 PM   #1796
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Have to give credit where credit is due. Mayweather simply owned Mosley. It was pretty damn close in the 2nd round when Moseley landed an overhand right across Mayweather's jaw. As soon as Roger Mayweather said to box Moseley to Floyd after the second round, it was gg from the 3rd round on. Too quick. Too smart. Too skillfull. Kept pot shotting Moseley with 2 punch combinations.

I have to give it to Mayweather. He's good in polarizing his fan base. Love him or hate him, he has a way to make people watch him fight. Someone had to be a villian and he was it.
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:56 PM   #1797
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Baseball players take them to get big and strong.

Pitchers take them to get big legs.

Cyclists take PED's to increase stamina not to recover from the training. This is not achieved thorough muscular endurance, but from the body being able to use more oxygen in the blood stream.

Explain how that is not aerobic performance.

And if you are going to try to wordplay me with steroids and PED's aren't the same or whatever, don't even bother.
To be frank, you have no ****ing idea what you're talking about. Stick to what you know (Hint: not this).
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:01 PM   #1798
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Covered earlier ITT, but it's what was requested that's the issue. PBF asked for stricter testing and that was agreed to, but he wanted testing done up to 14 days prior to the fight, which Pac wouldn't agree too, asking instead for a limit of 30 days prior.

If you like PBF, you'll say Pac is on PEDs. If you like Pac, you'll say PBF is ducking him.

I think objectively, PBF asked for something that surely his camp knew Pac would either 1) Not accept or 2) Accept but cause Pac to be mentally out of sorts prior to the fight.

We can all laugh at the idea that having blood drawn 14 days prior to the bell will make Pac a physically weaker fighter and that his belief that it will is silly, but he believes it none the less, so it will affect him.


There's no real gain for "fairness" if the blood testing is moved 2 weeks closer as it's not likely to catch anything more anyway, but it was a decent pysch-out move by PBF's camp. His bluff didn't work, now let's get in the ring.
The bold is the part I really have a problem with wrt Paq fans. While I think it's lame that Floyd is making such a demand, I think it's equally lame that Paq won't just accept it and move on. It's really not a big deal at all and I don't give a **** about how superstitious he is. It's irrational. He's giving Floyd an out. Whether Floyd truly wants that out or not is up to debate (he probably does). Floyd is a master at head games and certaintly at the very least trying to just get under Manny's skin.


I don't think ANYONE really thinks Manny is taking PEDs and that's why he won't agree to the testing. It's not like the testing could find any of the **** anyway. It's Manny's irrational refusal to just take the silly test that annoys me.
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:47 PM   #1799
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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sick chin to survive that
The second shot is more of a credit to Floyd's ring IQ than his physical ability to withstand a punch. Shane's hook caught him in the temple, which seemed to throw Floyd's equilibrium off. It's very impressive that someone like Floyd, who doesn't get tagged often, immediately started to get close to Shane, clinch, and slow the fight down.
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:00 PM   #1800
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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To be frank, you have no ****ing idea what you're talking about. Stick to what you know (Hint: not this).
yes, you are te expert because you say so
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