man i absolutely love cotto, my favorite fighter, but i think martinez is the way to go this fight

he is just so much bigger. yeah he looked bad v murray (and what do i know anyway) but damn he is soooooooooo much bigger and cotto isn't in his prime anymore either. i am rooting for cotto hard but i think he should be about 4-1 personally. i like martinez too fwiw. i can't get over teh size difference. cotto is a really smalll 154 (got pushed around by trout imo), 159 is absurd to me. i think martinez is an amazing bet at 2/5 or whatever it is

At the MGM working the fight telecast...good fight, surprising how action-packed it was....Manny totally out-classed Bradley. Shame, because he's a class act.

Toprank's upcoming schedule is a good one:

Donaire Vetyeka
Cotto Martinez

Both should be good fights...Martinez is getting up there, but I don't see Cotto hanging with him for long.

Yea, Martinez Cotto is a no bet for me. I think Martinez is worse now than vs Murray, he just looks out of shape + hasn't been able to run on that knee for a year? That's screwed up (even ACL NBA players run far sooner than a year on those knees).

Your points about Cotto's lack of size are good. I disagree that he's far out of his prime, I think his prime is about where he is now tbh (assuming he's motivated and whatnot), I just don't think his prime is all that great. His PR lineage seems to gift him a ton of fans tbh.

Guy is a ****ing dick too. Maybe that makes it harder to pull the trigger on Cotto for me, but certainly easier to bet on Martinez for me and I'm holding off.

yeah u might be right considering his performance v mayweather is basically the best in the last 5 years or so. i agree that his prime isn't that great considering his lack of defense and head movement but i still love him for his maidanaesque style (no coincidence they are my two faves) and his PR heritage prob wins him some fans (although i'm a white mut and couldn't care less)

and your points about martinez's knees are taken. i didn't rly know about all that tbh. but i just don't think cotto is big enough at all. i think even losing to margarito with margarito cheating is still a bit telling about his talents tbh. i think that is a bit overlooked.

Cotto is a dick? What?

I thought cotton has always been super humble in interviews and on 24 7 and whatnot but supposedly he wouldn't shake Martinez hand or give him half a second on some random espn Latino boxing thing a few years ago

What has Cotto done to prove that he's a dick?

I lost my feed I think after round 9. I had it 5-4 Pacquiao. Did he win out from there?

Has anyone seen John Murray on Ringside? His jaw looks ****ed, is it temporary or a side effect of getting punched in the face for a living?

This ainec

and just like you said I like Manny 100x more than Floyd as a person and as an entertainer inside the ring but I think Floyd wins pretty easily

I had a few drinks, maybe shouldn't have called him a ****ing dick, but he does seem like a bit of a cocky jerk to me.

Off the top of my head, he speaks about himself as if he's describing a god, he's notoriously finicky about negotiations (where his name is announced, when he comes out, etc. not just in Martinez fight). Dramatics about retirement, some domestic violence stuff I believe recently.

That said, you can say the same exact stuff about Floyd (though that's probably why people want to see him lose so badly).

This.

Cotto is very cocky. He says all the right things and he's been hyped heavily his whole career. Jim Lampley might single handedly get him into HOF. He's a very very good fighter, has a legit case for HOF, just not the world-beater we thought he could have been when he first turned pro.

I'm still miffed about Bradley's strategy. The only thing I can think of is he thought he had to get a KO because he wasn't going to win a close decision. I thought he would basically try to do what he did in the first fight, only better. He pretty much gave the second half of the fight away.

I'm not making accusations, just wondering... Has Pac had a KO since Floyd made the steroids allegation? I tend not to believe in coincidence.

Floyd at -275 vs Pac for all the money in the world. Pac's Marquez fights are all one needs to see to be able to tell how he would vs Floyd. Marquez was able to counter and time Pac well in each fight, and he is no Floyd in the category.

FM v MP will happen one day.. Not as soon as we had liked, but it will happen. I don't think either fighter is ducking the other. Floyd wants the most money and Pac lost twice (robbed once) and was KO'd by a guy Floyd dismantled. It should have happened before that tho.

Floyd should go down as at least top 20 all time, esp if he beats Pac and retires undefeated. Pac would have a tough time cracking my top 50, unless he beats Floyd somehow.

.

Seems like you are underrating both of them.

Lol you must be delusional. There's no shot you come up with a list of 50 fighters better than pac. I'd be interested to see what you're list looks like

I've talked to and interviewed Cotto a number of times...and while his English is not great, he has never been anything but gracious...quiet and a man of few words, but hardly a dick.

Manny and Floyd are, when judged on their entire body of work, very close and prob top 20 all time. A lot of good HWs from the old days and some really solid Welterweight/Middleweight entrants too.

Tried to have a boxing draft once and didn't get any interest but I think it would be fun to try and rank them.

Old heavyweights are rated so high due to the sports writers who still worship them and the so called golden medal era of heavyweights.

Manny Pacquiao has beaten every guy he's fought since 1999*. This includes Marco Antonio Barrera (twice), Juan Manuel Marquez (twice), Erik Morales (twice), Oscar De La hoya, Miguel Cotto, Ricky Hatton (all three in spectacular style), Antonio Margarito, Tim Bradley. These wins span 126lbs to 150lbs. This is in addition to wins at 112 and 122 lbs. He beat 4 prime, first ballot HOFers (the three Mexicans + Cotto), and 2 prime potential HOFers (Hatton & Bradley).

By contrast RJJ beat three prime HOFers, two of them first ballot (giving him Hopkins, as well as Toney and Tarver). FMJ has first balloters Cotto and DLH, as well as Corrales and Castillo (probably), potentially Hatton and Canelo. Judah was coming off a loss to Carlos fkn Baldomir so he doesn't count, Marquez was coming up two weight classes and Mayweather missed weight so I'm not counting that (although it was by all accounts an impressive performance). Obviously Gatti doesn't count even though he's in the HOF.

Pacquiao's resume is incredible.

*excluding a Technical draw with Agapito Sanchez in 2001.

I used to think Canelo was massively overprotected but he has turned into a Carl Froch-like fight anybody kind of guy. Good stuff.

I mean, guys like Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Dempsey, Foreman, Holmes, Liston, and Ali aren't exactly products of hype. Nor are guys like Lennox and the Klitchs (boring tho they are/were).

There have been a ton of great Heavy's in history, and they clog up top 20 discussions along with the obvious lighter guys.

Worst athlete ever. Would never have a shot vs. a Klitschko.
Boxing evolves. Floyd Joy Mayweather JR #1 of all time, Pacquiao #2 and Ward #3.

Yeah, it's worth reminding yourself every now and then just how amazing Ali was. How the hell does a heavyweight move like that??

That's quite possible, as I'm not as impressed with Pac's full body of work as others. I will concoct a list tho, because it sounds like fun.. If anything it will stirs some discussion