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Old 12-09-2012, 12:24 PM   #9851
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Pac photoshops are great
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:27 PM   #9852
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yea almost all hate towards pac is due to his obnoxious fanbase.
I'm sure the majority is good people, but the vocal minority is oh so annoying.

I was quite a big fan of Pac before he beat Oscar. Rooted for him against Barrera etc. Rooted for him against Marquez in their first fight.
But after he beat Oscar a massive amount of bull**** flooded the internets claiming he's the goat, would beat duran, etc etc. People even had him top5-10 atg of all time.

He's a very good guy. Ego maniac like every famous person, but still very classy and an awesome fighter.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:33 PM   #9853
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Every huge star has fans like that though. Have you ever seen the comments on a youtube Mike Tyson video?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:42 PM   #9854
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Not making excuses here. Sure it will look like it, but watch this gif. A smart coach friend pointed it out. Watch Manny's feet when it pans away. Looks like he tripped and fell into that punch. Which makes a bit of sense to me. I never saw the angle before and when he got hit some things didn't make sense...like his left arm stopped being in motion too, and how fast he was moving forward into it.

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Old 12-09-2012, 12:52 PM   #9855
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yeah his lead foot hit Marquez's lead foot. Happens a lot when southpaws face right handers.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:10 PM   #9856
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

The signs of steroid are not only increased bulk, but ability to absord pain, and extra strength compared to pre-steroid.

Marquez' nose was broken going into 6th round and his face was a bloody mess, then he took more damage from Manny in the 6th, and the counter-right he KO'd Manny with is the same shot that Manny has absord from Marquez countless times in the first 3 fights with little damage. Even the best fighters in Marquez' bloody condition at the end of a round are usually fighting to survive to the bell instead of launching KO punches of their own.

Marquez also is not the biggest puncher by any means that Manny has faced in his career, however on this night Marquez, at 39yo, hurt Manny in a way that much bigger punchers like Cotto never did, or Marquez himself in previous fights for that matter.

I would love to give Marquez the benefit of the doubt, but given who's in his corner(Angel Heredia is basically one of the biggest steroid chemists in the last 20 years...) it's hard to ignore the evidence, and EPO disappears from blood within 24 hours from administering so no positive test will be forthcoming.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:12 PM   #9857
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This is a perfect time for JMM to hang up the gloves. At 39 he's going to start fading exponentially really soon.

Go out on a career high and be remembered for that fight. The last thing I'd want to see him do is what Roy Jones Jr. did and lose the next 4 in a row before he decides enough is enough.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:15 PM   #9858
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

As for Manny though, regardless of whether JMM was on steroids, for Manny to get so careless at the end of a round when he was about to finish JMM off in the next round or two, means that he would've never beaten Floyd. Manny would've come out blazing and Mayweather would've picked his spots to hurt Manny enroute to a decision-win because of how open Manny leaves himself.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:17 PM   #9859
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Is there any credible source to ped usage increase punch resistance?

talking about Marquez pain threshold with regards to broken nose and bloodied face means you really haven't seen a whole lot of his fights. If there's someone who never backs down even while taking a beating it's him.

"Much bigger punchers" like Cotto are not fast enough to deal with Pac and NEVER caught him while moving forward right on the button.

Epo? Strength? Ability to absorb pain? What?

Give the man his dues. The same fans that are now screaming about peds are the same that gave Pacquiao every benefit of doubt. Give it a rest.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:30 PM   #9860
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Could cotto make 147?

Im thinking him vs jmm would be a cool and very marketable fight.

Puerto rico vs mexico hatefest angle
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:31 PM   #9861
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

KoC, being able to remain stable throughout haymaking head shots is due to having strong neck muscles which prevent the head from snapping backwards as the snapping effect is what causes the brain to move slightly while inside the skull, thus causing brain trauma (it's why you see Floyd lifting weights with his neck when he trains). If JMM is more muscular, it is safe to say that his neck muscles have been enhanced as well meaning that he can handle more punches.

I've been playing guilty until proven innocent when it comes to roids nowadays. It is so damn easy to cheat the system that to not cheat is stupid.

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:32 PM   #9862
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Now that I can post in line...

Right after the KO
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:38 PM   #9863
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

ya basically it is imo just best to assume everyone is dirty and let's enjoy some fights.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:43 PM   #9864
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofcool View Post
Could cotto make 147?

Im thinking him vs jmm would be a cool and very marketable fight.

Puerto rico vs mexico hatefest angle
Marquez would destroy him.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:44 PM   #9865
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofcool View Post
The same fans that are now screaming about peds are the same that gave Pacquiao every benefit of doubt. Give it a rest.
Kevin Iole administers the boxing pound-for-pound rankings for Yahoo and wrote an article pretty much saying the same things about Marquez... and he's hardly a Pacquiao fan considering he scored the first 2 bouts for Marquez and has always said Mayweather would beat Pacquiao in a fight.

It's a lot easier to give someone benefit of the doubt when you don't have one of the top steroids guys in the world working in your corner, someone who tested in Congress against his colleagues. Even Victor Conte head of BALCO said "I have no respect for Angel Heredia.. we all worked together supplying substances to athletes, I went to jail for it, but Angel decided to be a rat to avoid jail himself.. no respect for him as a human being whatsoever" or something close to that.

Does this mean Pacquiao wasn't on drugs himself? Hardly. But Marquez with Angel in his corner and his new physique and increased punching power at age of 39 certainly point to one thing.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:46 PM   #9866
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

yea i adopt the same view. I think most pro athletes are using it, and certainly most fighters.
But if i do feel that way then i can't say either guy is getting an unfair advantage. Both are likely using it.

And if you're of the opinion that it's not widespread, then how can you suspect one fighter and not the other when they're so competitive and both show increased muscle mass, explosiveness and power? It's beyond me. Especially coming from the fans that during these past years have complained about how "you can't accuse someone of x" and "let the commission do it's job!!".
Don't sink to that level and act like Marquez is a cheat while Pac isn't. Pac looked absolutely great and was probably winning the fight. They've had 42 rounds of back and forth action.

I'm really done with this discussion as i don't feel it's worthy a day like this. I'd rather use the time to admire Marquez for a truly amazing victory at 39 years of age.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:52 PM   #9867
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

romney.jpg

Last edited by JudgeHoldem; 12-09-2012 at 01:53 PM. Reason: SLOWPONY
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:57 PM   #9868
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
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Marquez would destroy him.
yeah, maybe, but the size difference would be huge.
And Cotto is a very technical fighter, using his jab very well. It could be interesting imo and i think Cotto would give Marquez some trouble for sure.

How about Jmm-Rios? That for sure would be brutal.

Jmm-Bradley i guess is also an option. Would hate to see Bradley spoil and headbutt his way into legit pound4pound contender status though.

Jmm shouldn't really stay at 147 though. He'd be a great 140. He could KO Khan in may? Or fight Danny Garcia?
It's funny how people said Amir Khan was cherrypicking Marquez when he showed interest in fighting him. This was just 1.5-2 years ago.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:00 PM   #9869
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

jesus he dropped him like a bag of dirt
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:01 PM   #9870
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Mormons like blood sport?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:56 PM   #9871
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

If Marquez wants to keep fighting I'd like to see him vs Broner. I think Marquez could still make lightweight fairly easy, or Broner could step up to junior welterweight - which he should be doing soon anyway.


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Old 12-09-2012, 02:56 PM   #9872
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I don't think Cotto could make 147 anymore, and he's too small for the big guys at 154. He needs a 150 lb. weight division.

I'd pick JMM over Cotto at 147. JMM-Rios would be an awesome, phone booth type fight like JMM had with Katsidis. But I think JMM's combinations would be too much for Rios.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:10 PM   #9873
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With all the PED talk no one has mentioned Marquez weighed in at 143 and Pacquio at 147.

It really seemed Pacquio was going to win the fight and it is hard to say how lucky the punch was. So there is nothing else to do but have another fight but this time in Mexico!

I was glad it was not a decision again that is for sure.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:31 PM   #9874
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 663366 View Post
Marquez' nose was broken going into 6th round and his face was a bloody mess, then he took more damage from Manny in the 6th,
Yeah...you might want to watch a couple of Marquez fights pre Angel.

Quote:
and the counter-right he KO'd Manny with is the same shot that Manny has absord from Marquez countless times in the first 3 fights with little damage.
LOLNO, Marquez has stunned him before and no one has caught Manny this clean in recent history.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #9875
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by Ce1ska View Post
Yeah...you might want to watch a couple of Marquez fights pre Angel.



LOLNO, Marquez has stunned him before and no one has caught Manny this clean in recent history.
I've seen plenty of his fights dating back 10 years, and like I said Manny was way too careless to risk himself open like that one second before end of round. However if you think I'm alone in questioning Marquez' sudden punching power then read all of Kevin Iole's articles on Yahoo... the guy organizes the pound-for-pound rankings for both boxing and UFC so unless you don't think he knows what he's talking about then I'm not alone.
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