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Old 01-06-2012, 07:39 PM   #6676
Gregg777
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I don't see why all of you are putting this on Pac.

If PFB went to jail now he would have time to train for a June 7 fight, especially getting out in 65 days.

PFB knew Pac was cut and knew Arum said Pac wouldn't fight as early as May 5.

This is clearly a move by PFB to never fight Pac since it would essentially push it back almost another year if they don't fight in May.

Hopefully Pac's eye will be good and they surprise PFB by agreeing to the fight.

I would have put my money on Pac, but not now after seeing Pac's last fight.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #6677
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg777 View Post
I don't see why all of you are putting this on Pac.
Not all of us is. I am. Partly. As of right now.

Quote:
If PFB went to jail now he would have time to train for a June 7 fight, especially getting out in 65 days.
You expect him to sign for a fight in june when he will potentially be in jail until the beginning of April?
That sounds completely unreasonable.

Quote:
PFB knew Pac was cut and knew Arum said Pac wouldn't fight as early as May 5.
Yeah, Manny apparently needed 4 months to heal from a cut UNTIL Floyd was sentenced to jail and thereby not available for a may 5th fight.
Bob Arum then felt Pac should take the may 5th slot and fight Juan Manuel Marquez.

Now that Floyd is once again free to fight on May 5th, Pacquiao is unavailable.

This seems shady to me, but it doesn't to you?
Not to mention.. what kind of a mutantcut are we talking about where one would need 4 months to heal? How long did it take for Ward?

Quote:
This is clearly a move by PFB to never fight Pac since it would essentially push it back almost another year if they don't fight in May.
Yeah unless, you know, fight on May 5th.

This is where i feel a notsureifsrs.jpeg is suitable as i seriously have no idea if you're trolling or just extremely biased.

Quote:
Hopefully Pac's eye will be good and they surprise PFB by agreeing to the fight.
Lets hope, but i doubt it. I expect a Cotto rematch at some catchweight.
Also expect Floyd vs. Canelo or possibly Berto if he beats Ortiz (but i lean more towards Canelo)

Quote:
I would have put my money on Pac, but not now after seeing Pac's last fight.
What new did you see in jmm vs Pac 3 that makes you feel hes suddenly an underdog to one of the best and most accurate counterpunchers of all time?
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:05 PM   #6678
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

So.. just read Floyd is going to make an announcement next week about the details of his next fight. Two fighters being considered are Canelo Alvarez and Guerrero (lol). Arum is supposed to fly to the Philippines next week to talk to Pacquiao.

Floyd and co. better not make a decision until its absolutely clear that Arum doesn't want it. If they make a decision w/o trying real hard to make the mega fight in order to send some sort "eye-opener" to Arum, then I'll consider it another duck on Floyd's part.

http://www.boxingscene.com/mayweathe...ero-mix--48210
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:19 PM   #6679
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Oh no... Arum says fight must be in late May.

"May 5 is out for us, it can't happen, because we want to explore the idea of getting a [temporary] stadium/arena up on the streets of Las Vegas that can seat 40,000," Arum said. "The end of May is a possibility."

Arum said he's intent to explore the idea of the larger outdoor venue because "having the fight in a 40,000-seat arena rather than a 16,000-seat arena seems like a no-brainer."

Additionally, Arum said Pacquiao is still healing from a deep cut over one of his eyes that he sustained in the Marquez fight.

"I don't know that he's on schedule to start sparring until the beginning of April," Arum said. "That's one of the things we'll discuss. If it is early April, we'll have to have the fight in late May."

Asked if he was cynical about Mayweather's interest in truly wanting to fight Pacquiao, Arum said, "I have no idea."

"Asked if Pacquiao wants Mayweather, Arum said, "Yeah."

If the fight every boxing fans wants to see can't materialize, Mayweather might opt to fight someone like Robert Guerrero, a top junior-welterweight contender from Gilroy."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...ous+Forum%29&u

..and the saga continues ...
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:35 PM   #6680
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Guerrero won't be the fight, it's just absurd. Schaeffer also mentioned Erik Morales as a possible opponent which was shot down instantly. Canelo is probably very likely tho.

It's really beyond me how anyone can't see how ******ed this is. I mean honestly? Pacquiao received a cut in a fight, and needs possibly 5 months of rest just to be able to spar again? 5 months. People with rotator-cuff injuries sometimes get back to action quicker.
Realize the tissue damage needed to make it 5 months to being repaired. I don't think I've ever heard of it in my 20 years as a fan of this sport.

And what is with Bob Arum and his ****ing stadium?

"May 5 is out for us, it can't happen, because we want to explore the idea of getting a [temporary] stadium/arena up on the streets of Las Vegas that can seat 40,000," Arum said. "The end of May is a possibility."

Arum said he's intent to explore the idea of the larger outdoor venue because "having the fight in a 40,000-seat arena rather than a 16,000-seat arena seems like a no-brainer."

No Arum. The no-brainer thing to do is make THE BIGGEST FIGHT OF THE LAST 30 years, and arguably EVER while it is possible. If you can only seat 16k instead of 40k but bank 3million ppv in the us alone then who the **** cares?

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Old 01-06-2012, 09:36 PM   #6681
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

lol Arum, stay duckin'.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:50 PM   #6682
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

"I'm not married to May 5, so Manny could fight on another date in May," Arum said. "If Manny's opponent is Marquez, I'd be much more married to the date."
Bob Arum Jan 5th (floyd scheduled to drop soaps in jail)

*Jan 6th, floyd is free to fight on May 5th*

"Manny isn't going to be ready to fight until summertime."
Bob Arum Jan 6th

Whatever. Floyd is such a pussy.
Did i mention hes probably in a gaylover relationship with Ellerbe and enjoys beating up women?
Hes a freak and a weird dude. Hes also quite black.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:10 PM   #6683
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I mean, it's possible (probable?) that Floyd is a woman hitting ***** AND Arum is a liar and a scumbag.

I for one am shocked, shocked, that those types of characters could exist in the sport of boxing, but hey, anything's possible.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:58 PM   #6684
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)



the 5 month cut for reference



Andre Wards 4 week cut.

Last edited by kingofcool; 01-07-2012 at 12:00 AM. Reason: taken from boxingscene.com
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:06 AM   #6685
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

For reference, Vitali fought 5 months after this:

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Old 01-07-2012, 02:12 AM   #6686
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Its obvious Arum is just using Manny's cut as an excuse. It probably fully healed by now. But Arum was a new excuse: can't fight May 5th because I want to build a stadium. I don't know if Floyd will push the date back to late May, but I am guessing he won't or can't because he already booked the MGM Grand on May 5th.

It's blatantly clear that Arum wants to squeeze at least one more fight out of Manny before putting him in the ring versus Floyd. sigh...

Last edited by trippy; 01-07-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:53 AM   #6687
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

For starters, we already know how Floyd is as a person. Its "my way or the highway".
If he says hes fighting on may fifth, that's when hes fighting.

The cut excuse is beyond absurd; it's not even reasonable to expect a simple cut taking 5 months to clear in my medical opinion (I've seen some House episodes).

The building a stadium holds some merits at first glance, but if it's between a 40k temporary stadium in Las Vegas with a 10% chance of the fight happening, or a ~20k stadium in Vegas with a 100% chance of the fight happening/making floyd look like a pussy for withdrawing it's suddenly quite LOL to even suggest it.

Floyd was granted a pushback on his jail stint due to contractual obligations (as in hes already booked for may fifth at MGM arena = multi million dollar commitment). Thats the basis of why his request was granted.
Could he get this changed and pushed back? I don't know. Possibly? But why? To build stadiums or overoveroveroverheal minor cuts?

It's Bob Arums fault but deep down Manny is responsible.
Bob Arum always tells us hes only presenting Manny with options and Manny himself is the one to decide.
People let Pac off too easily just because Bob Arum acts like a shield for bad PR. It's up to him to get this fight right now or else hes just plain ducking no matter what you feel about previous happenings in this circus.

I'll hope this **** goes down now. Both guys are getting up there in age and have other distractions in life.
If it doesn't happen now it may be impossible in the future.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:14 AM   #6688
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Other than Pacquiao the list of opponents that Floyd could possibly fight that mildly interest me are:

Saul Alvarez

...and that's it.

It looks like Bob Arum doesn't want the fight but if you believe Floyd wants it just because he says he does then you're crazy.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:30 AM   #6689
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

tl;dr version

Floyd says he wants the fight, hes made himself available to fight, hes removed all the roadblocks for the fights on his part. What else should he do?
Manny and Bob are the ones that are currently keeping this fight from happening and theres substantial evidence as to that.

If roles were reversed, Floyd would be crucified.

Last edited by kingofcool; 01-07-2012 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:38 AM   #6690
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Floyd has said publicly that he wants to fight Pacquiao....so what? Pacquiao has done the same. Do you really believe that Floyd thought that after he announced that he had booked the MGM for 5th May that Arum/Pacquiao would say "yes Mr. Mayweather let's do what you want to do"? Of course he didn't. It would be the same if Arum came out and set a date for the fight to happen, Floyd would say no.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:40 AM   #6691
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by NoJacket View Post
Floyd has said publicly that he wants to fight Pacquiao....so what? Pacquiao has done the same. Do you really believe that Floyd thought that after he announced that he had booked the MGM for 5th May that Arum/Pacquiao would say "yes Mr. Mayweather let's do what you want to do"? Of course he didn't. It would be the same if Arum came out and set a date for the fight to happen, Floyd would say no.
So basically the legitimate reason for not making this fight is pride?

Bob Arum said he liked the may fifth date just yesterday, prior to it became clear that Mayweather was once again available.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofcool View Post
Floyd says he wants the fight, hes made himself available to fight, hes removed all the roadblocks for the fights on his part. What else should he do?
Manny and Bob are the ones that are currently keeping this fight from happening and theres substantial evidence as to that.

If roles were reversed, Floyd would be crucified.
Right now Floyd is the one whos trying to make this fight happening from the information that we are privy to. Could he be bluffing? Yeah maybe.

What i do know is a) Manny does not need 5 months to heal a cut. b) You don't need to delay this fight to build a temporary stadium. c) Arum said Manny could fight Marquez on the fifth just yesterday. Today he can't fight Floyd on the fifth because of an injury.

Do with that what you want.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:49 AM   #6692
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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So basically the legitimate reason for not making this fight is pride?
It may well be that, yes. I'm sure you agree with me that Floyd would not accept the fight if the roles were reversed and Arum set the date.

As we have said before neither man needs the fight. Currently they are making 20-30 million for fighting anybody. People are getting carried away when they talk about how much money they would get for fighting each other, they seem to forget that they will be splitting 50-50 rather than getting the 80-90% they would usually get.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:20 PM   #6693
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofcool View Post
tl;dr version

Floyd says he wants the fight, hes made himself available to fight, hes removed all the roadblocks for the fights on his part. What else should he do?
Manny and Bob are the ones that are currently keeping this fight from happening and theres substantial evidence as to that.

If roles were reversed, Floyd would be crucified.
What Floyd should do is go into negotiations next week with Bob Arum. Ellerbe says they'll make an announcement on the May 5th fight next week. If they decide to fight Alvarez or Guerrero without trying to negotiate with Arum then that tells me they don't want the fight. If Arum gives a BS excuse, then Floyd will be free of blame.

Floyd says he's the boss and only hands out offers. Well, lets see him deliver an offer to Bob Arum and Pacquiao and see what they're response is.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #6694
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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It may well be that, yes. I'm sure you agree with me that Floyd would not accept the fight if the roles were reversed and Arum set the date.
If roles were reversed and Floyd (his team, whatever) blamed his inability to sign on an exaggerated injury and/or the need to build stadiums while still being available to fight other men on the same date i would disown him. I would never root for him ever again.

I can see the "pride" theory as in "hes not the boss of me" but it's not the angle that Bob Arum or Pacquiao is spinning so therefore i take it as a non-issue at the moment.

Quote:
As we have said before neither man needs the fight. Currently they are making 20-30 million for fighting anybody. People are getting carried away when they talk about how much money they would get for fighting each other, they seem to forget that they will be splitting 50-50 rather than getting the 80-90% they would usually get.
Both need it in terms of legacy and both would probably make twice as much if not more than they would fighting anyone else.

Both can make good (ridiculously good) money without each other obviously.

The sport DOES need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippy View Post
What Floyd should do is go into negotiations next week with Bob Arum. Ellerbe says they'll make an announcement on the May 5th fight next week. If they decide to fight Alvarez or Guerrero without trying to negotiate with Arum then that tells me they don't want the fight. If Arum gives a BS excuse, then Floyd will be free of blame.
I agree that they should do everything to make the fight and that includes sitting down with Arum next week.

But Floyd is scheduled for may fifth, hes got a contractual obligation for that date which is what his postponement of imprisonment was based upon.
Do i think they could get that changed? Probably, but i wouldn't know. I know nothing about the legal system in the US.

Bob Arum has already said publicly multiple times that may fifth is impossible citing injuries, stadiums etc as the excuse. How could there be a negotiation with that mindset going in? How do you negotiate the impossible?

Quote:
Floyd says he's the boss and only hands out offers. Well, lets see him deliver an offer to Bob Arum and Pacquiao and see what they're response is.
Didn't he do just that?
According to Bob it all hinges on Pacquiaos injury (the 5 month cut) and building temp stadiums.


I''m sure I'm coming off as a floyd apologist in this thread. That is not my intent even though i'm obviously a fan of his abilities in the ring and oftentimes root for him. I may have a bias.

I do feel Floyd has his share of the blame historically for this fight not happening. I understood the "floyd is a ducking ******" comments earlier in this thread. I agreed with some of the harsh critique.

As it stands right now, i feel it is up to Pacquiao to get this done or to call Floyds "bluff".
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:58 PM   #6695
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Floyd did not deliver an offer to Pacquiao yet.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:04 PM   #6696
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

So if he sent a formal contractual offer to fight on May fifth it would change your opinion?
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #6697
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yes, as long as he doesn't put anything crazy in the contract.

To me, it's clear Pacquiao wants the fight. If he didn't then he could have just not agreed to the drug testing and everyone would still blame Floyd. However, I think Arum is going to advise Pacquiao to fight in June (probably JMM again.. sigh..) and then fight Mayweather in November. And Pacquiao will go along with it.

From reading various articles the past day or so, it seems like the mega fight won't happen in May, but will happen in Nov.

Here's another article with quotes from Mayweather's cornerman: http://www.boxingscene.com/team-mayw...n-manny--48236
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #6698
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Ok, i guess it's a polarizing situation where people will see it very differently (your view vs mine). In my opinion Pacquiao "agreed" (note he hasn't signed anything) because his public image took a beating. Now that doesn't mean he didn't agree because he actually wants the fight, i just don't think it's a strong indicator.

If Pac and Mayweather fights in november I'm fine with that but given all the twists and turns in this freaky circus i just see too many possible roadblocks to be put out there until that time. The best time to make this fight is NOW as little can happen to **** it up.

I wouldn't put too much credit into that article. I read it. Nate Jones duty in camp is basically carrying towels and getting punched in the stomach.
He mentions Cotto, Bradley and Maidana(!) as the frontrunners even though neither of those are even remotely likely to be the fight. Cotto could be if he remained a free agent, but he most likely wont.

Who would you prefer to see Pac/Floyd against this half of the year granted they wont fight each other?

Personally, in order.

floyd
1) Martinez @ 154 - very unlikely as hes already signed to fight Macklin. Would take significant balls + offer step aside money to Mackling for that to happen

2) Saul Alvarez @ 150+ - Highly likely. If i were to bet, i would pick this fight as the frontrunner. I think it's a cool fight as Canelo is young and hungry and hes no joke, but hes also far from a complete product. Hes got a lot of finetuning before hes really ready to take over the world. Even so, It's a cool fight given whats available.

3) Cotto @ 150+ - Quite unlikely but it's a (very) remote possibility. Cotto looked good in his last fight, and we've been waiting for this fight quite some time now.

4) No idea. Wtf is even out there? Berto if he beats Ortiz. I guess i don't care.

99) Guerrero. A joke fight and it shouldn't happen ever.

Pac


1) Martinez - yeah i know but i may as well dream.

2) Bradley @ 147 - i guess? I have mixed feelings about Bradley and i think he gets crushed by Pac, but hes undefeated, young, strong. It's something new and fresh.

3) Berto/Ortiz winner @ 147 - winner would be #3 welterweight in the world. It's a decent fight.

4) Jmm(same cw as before) or Cotto(150+) - With jmm I'm just not that big in this fourth fight happening. It's good for jmm as it rakes in a lot of money for him, but as a fan I'm just indifferent. They went at it for 36 rounds already and it's mostly settled that they are about as evenly matched as is humanly possible. I don't need to see it again.
Cotto had some rejuvenation, but it's still a rematch in where Cotto just got crushed a couple of years ago.

5) Peterson @ 147 - Peterson is a crafty guy at 140, but hes just not a guy i want Pac to waste a fight on. It's like Floyd fighting Maidana, i have very little interest.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:01 PM   #6699
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I honestly don't care who they fight if it's not against each other. I would like them to fight SM, but that ain't happening.

Canelo fight interests me the most, but he's too inexperienced. He's not ready for Floyd. I don't really have any interest in a Cotto vs. Floyd fight.

None of Pac's potential opponents interest me whatsoever. I guess the Berto/Ortiz winner would interest me the most, but they aren't even going to be discussed. Plus will they have a fight in mid-Feb, Pac's opponent will probably already be decided by then. Bradley interests me more than JMM, but I don't really care for either fight. I've already seen the JMM fight three times, and Bradley fights are rarely entertaining. A Cotto fight will be a repeat of the first one, regardless of the weight. Peterson fight is laughable, and he has to take the rematch against Khan first anyways.

Basically, they are both running out of opponents and need to face each other.

What I think happens is Floyd vs. Canelo in May, Pac vs. JMM in June, and the mega fight will finally happen in November.

Last edited by trippy; 01-07-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:41 PM   #6700
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I just found out that Cotto is a free agent so he is now ahead of Alvarez on my list of likely guys I'd like to see Floyd fight.

My order for Pacquiao would be:

1. JMM
2. Bradley
3. Cotto
4,5. Rios (at 140) or Peterson

As you can see the winner of Berto-Ortiz fighting one of the big 2 doesn't excite me that much.

Neither Pac or Floyd will fight Martinez, and nor should they. It would be a crazy thing to do. Maybe Cotto will fight JCC Jnr and Pacquiao will fight the winner, that would be huge.
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