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Old 11-20-2011, 12:08 AM   #6276
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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any of your fighters lose to him?

300 fights and 32 wins is a tragedy.
No , he is famous in U.K boxing scene.

Without the small hall shows there would be no big time boxing,journey men like him keep the small shows alive.He would take a fight with a few hours notice.

Not sure how many ,but he has fought loads of world champions when they where up and coming.Not many stop him either ,as he has mastered how to not get stopped.Because if he does he can't fight for a certain amount of weeks,which is no good for a journey man that fights as much as him.

Boxing owes guys like that more than people will ever know
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:43 AM   #6277
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

After watching the Pacquiao Marquez fight replay tonight, all that talk about boxing rigged and Marquez won was b.s.. They both landed a similar amount of punches, (compubox showed Manny landing a significant amount more really) but Manny was coming forward and throwing a ton more punches. So imo, Manny not winning would have been the real tragedy.

Nice try Marquez, but next time grow a pair and don't back up the whole fight and expect to win unless you land a decent amount more punches than the other guy.

(I also watched both replays of the old Mayweather vs Castillo fights (2 fights) recently on youtube, which I recommend. Not a ton of action but pretty interesting)

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Old 11-20-2011, 12:55 AM   #6278
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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No , he is famous in U.K boxing scene.

Without the small hall shows there would be no big time boxing,journey men like him keep the small shows alive.He would take a fight with a few hours notice.

Not sure how many ,but he has fought loads of world champions when they where up and coming.Not many stop him either ,as he has mastered how to not get stopped.Because if he does he can't fight for a certain amount of weeks,which is no good for a journey man that fights as much as him.

Boxing owes guys like that more than people will ever know
i don't know the guy at all so my first impression was that he'd be suffering from some kind of brain trauma (punch drunk) after losing almost 300 fights.

quite happy for you to tell me that is not the case.
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:10 AM   #6279
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

There was a really interesting interview with him, he started his career off quite well (6-1-1), but then he realised that he found it hard to get fights when he was considered dangerous, so he molded this role where he'd take on young fighters, go the distance, and lose, and fight very often. Looking at the list of people who stopped him:

Duke McKenzie (*2)
Naseem Hamed
Paul Lloyd (Commonwealth champion)
Colin McMillan
Gregorio Medina
Acelino Freitas
Richard Evatt

Apart from Medina they were all top notch fighters. He also went the distance with Nas, and Didn't get stopped in something like his final 150 fights.
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Old 11-20-2011, 02:21 AM   #6280
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Wow, boxers don't fight 138 bouts over the span of their careers anymore.


http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009014&cat=boxer&pageID=2
wonjongkam could get there
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...4051&cat=boxer
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Old 11-20-2011, 02:24 AM   #6281
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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After watching the Pacquiao Marquez fight replay tonight, all that talk about boxing rigged and Marquez won was b.s.. They both landed a similar amount of punches, (compubox showed Manny landing a significant amount more really) but Manny was coming forward and throwing a ton more punches. So imo, Manny not winning would have been the real tragedy.

Nice try Marquez, but next time grow a pair and don't back up the whole fight and expect to win unless you land a decent amount more punches than the other guy.

(I also watched both replays of the old Mayweather vs Castillo fights (2 fights) recently on youtube, which I recommend. Not a ton of action but pretty interesting)
It's not about whos coming forward. It's about effective aggression which manny had none.

compubox is two guys pushing buttons. They don't account for glancing blows.
If you want to make a case for pacquiao, I'm sure its possible. But not using the effective aggression criteria.

And fighting on your backfoot is not about lacking balls. Or would you say the same about Ali?
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Old 11-20-2011, 02:43 AM   #6282
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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It's not about whos coming forward. It's about effective aggression which manny had none.

compubox is two guys pushing buttons. They don't account for glancing blows.
If you want to make a case for pacquiao, I'm sure its possible. But not using the effective aggression criteria.

And fighting on your backfoot is not about lacking balls. Or would you say the same about Ali?
Well I'm just saying if the punches landed are close, aggression should break the tie.

If you back up, you need to land more punches imo, which Ali usually did.

(clean effective punches are number 1, but if thats close then go to the guy making the fight)

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Old 11-20-2011, 04:20 AM   #6283
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Well I'm just saying if the punches landed are close, aggression should break the tie.
It's not called aggression. It's called effective aggression. What was effective with Mannys "aggression"?

Amount of punches landed close? Yes.
But the quality of those punches are not close.

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If you back up, you need to land more punches imo, which Ali usually did.

(clean effective punches are number 1, but if thats close then go to the guy making the fight)
No, you need to land more effective punches which Marquez did. As i said, there is no criteria for aggression, It's a criteria for EFFECTIVE aggression. And yes there is a difference.

Not to mention ring generalship. Whos fight do you feel they fought? Who dictated the tempo and style?

Clean effective punches goes easily to Marquez.

Effective aggression.. meh. Nothing effective in what Manny did. He was fighting Marquez fight, and got hit by much cleaner blows throughout.

Ring generalship.. Do i even have to write it?

and lastly defence. Which does matter when judging.

All in all, I've swayed from my initial emotional state of this fight. I don't think it was a robbery in the same sense as Lara vs Williams. But i still feel it was clear Marquez won the fight, and you really have to bend the judging criterias very liberally to score the fight for Pacquiao.

Whats done is done. Pac has the official W. But boxing history will remember that these two fighters went 36 rounds and both have a case for winning all 3, or all 3 a draw.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:35 PM   #6284
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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All in all, I've swayed from my initial emotional state of this fight. I don't think it was a robbery in the same sense as Lara vs Williams.
This seems to be the case with a lot of people who called it a robbery at the first time of watching. I scored it 8-4 to Marquez the first time I watched it, I didn't see it as a robbery because so many of the rounds were very close. I re-watched it and, without scoring again, it seemed closer than the first time.

I agree with you that the most important thing is that these two have had three very close and very good fights together. There names we always be linked together (along with Barrera and Morales) but it would be fitting if the series finished 1-1-1.

People can say what they like about Chavez Jr. but he seems to be in good fights whenever I've seen him recently.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:50 PM   #6285
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Wow, boxers don't fight 138 bouts over the span of their careers anymore.


http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009014&cat=boxer&pageID=2
Yori Boy Campas lost his bid for a 100th win last night.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...8038&cat=boxer
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:13 PM   #6286
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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People can say what they like about Chavez Jr. but he seems to be in good fights whenever I've seen him recently.
I thought Chavez looked pretty good too. I don't think Manfredo was any slouch either. The fact Manfredo even got in the ring with Calzaghe tells me something. I thought if the fight had gone on Manfredo had a chance if he could get in some more good body shots. It looked to me like a couple of the big body shots bothered Chavez more than the punches to his head. I don't understand the claim that Manfredo was not intelligently defending himself at the stoppage because he wasn't throwing back or holding on. He ducked and blocked all but about three of the flury of Chavez punches as I saw it. If ducking and blocking punches is not defending yourself then they should have stopped a bunch of Ali's fights everytime he rope-a-doped without throwing back. Nevertheless, better to err on the safe side I guess. Chavez really had been beating Manfredo up throughout the fight.

I just wonder who Chavez Jr fights next. I don't think he's ready for Martinez and it seems premature for Alvarez to move up. I guess they'll find somebody.

I don't agree with people who say Marquez just backpeddled the whole fight. Some of his best shots were launched as attacks not counterpunches. He was not on the attack as much as Pacquiao but I think he took it to Manny a good deal of the time. Nevertheless, I thought Pacquiao won when I watched it fight night and again on the replay last night. I slo-moed through some of the rounds last week and it looked to me that Manny was connecting better than you could easily see at full speed. But regardless of what goes on the records, Marquez came out of the fight vindicated in a way and will be remembered far more for his stellar performances in wars against Pacquiao and others than for his loss to Mayweather. On the other hand, while Pacquiao gets the win he has lost something with this fight. I think that "something" can be measured in how it has lengthened the odds against his beating Mayweather - if that fight is ever made.


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Old 11-21-2011, 01:11 PM   #6287
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

"I thank the Filipino people for their support. With God’s help, I won. But to those who think the judges’ decision was wrong, I’d say get real. Be a Filipino. ... "

rofl.

full quote, article etc http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/11/2...cs-boxing-news
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:49 PM   #6288
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I watched it again and still think Manny won. The HBO announcers were pretty hilarious at times. One replay in between rounds they were talking, "look at this sequence where Marquez lands a great shot." Then they show Manny coming in with a solid lead left to Marquez and both fighters flailing away inside with Marquez landing nothing and Manny landing two more glancing blows. Then as they come apart Marquez lands a glancing blow. I'm thinking okay they showed the wrong clip but the announcers didn't correct themselves and just kept talking about how Marquez was doing so well.

After re-scoring the fight again I had it the same way. Even after 10 and then Marquez went way too passive and gave the last two rounds to Manny.

The only fight of the trilogy Marquez has a case for is the second one. He definitely lost the first and this last one.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:41 PM   #6289
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I actually wouldn't mind seeing a Pacquiao-Marquez IV fight before Mayweather for a couple of reasons. It would be another great fight. And Pacquiao could use another lesson from the lightweight master counter puncher Marquez before going up against the welterweight master counter puncher Mayweather. The way Mayweather fights with his right shoulder curled away, Pacquiao will find him much harder to hit with his left - Manny's best punch. If Pacquiao intends to go up against Mayweather he needs to spend as much time as possible studying Mayweather's style and with Freddie Roach's help, devising the footwork and lines of attack that can break through it. Manny should be seeing slo-mo replays of Mayweather fights in his sleep.


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Old 11-21-2011, 04:45 PM   #6290
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Old 11-21-2011, 07:08 PM   #6291
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Boxing needs to do something about all the decisions and the resulting bad taste it leaves behind. They either need to go back to 15 rounds for championship fights or make the gloves smaller.

Heavyweight fights could stay the same as they don't really have this problem.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:35 PM   #6292
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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"I thank the Filipino people for their support. With God’s help, I won. But to those who think the judges’ decision was wrong, I’d say get real. Be a Filipino. ... "

rofl.

full quote, article etc http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/11/2...cs-boxing-news
That seems like a case of difficult translation/idiomatic speech or something. I find it hard to believe anyone with a political career to think about (and handlers who seem to take care of him a great deal) would be quoted saying anyone that didn't like him wasn't a real Filipino.

Those kind of gaffes might play in American politics, but I want to believe the rest of the world isn't as bad.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:06 PM   #6293
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Margarito has been licensed to fight in NY, the fight's on!!!
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:14 AM   #6294
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

They don't seem to be using there feet much,not far of a boxing match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itwZc...ature=youtu.be

Edit:Can't believe I said "boxing",safe to say he is a lot better at poker than he is boxing.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:15 PM   #6295
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

margarito is going to die in the ring. and i won't feel bad. if he dies, he dies
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:52 PM   #6296
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Margarito has been licensed to fight in NY, the fight's on!!!
The Puerto Ricans are dancing in the streets. That atmosphere will be electric.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:29 PM   #6297
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Yori Boy Campas lost his bid for a 100th win last night.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...8038&cat=boxer
I forgot about Campas! I still remember seeing him get beaten by DLH.

I watched the Cotto-Margarito 24/7 twice. I enjoyed it a lot. I felt that Margs was acting like a big dick. I guess it's part of his style. I really wished that they put together 4 episodes rather than just the 2, but I'll take it. Probably the best 24/7 I've watched, outside of the Mayweather-DLH craziness.

I hope Cotto puts on a clinic and KOs him late. It's great that the fight's going through at MSG.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:01 PM   #6298
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Pointless fight ,but great action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4MXhARXpgM

Grant was losing on points going into the 12th
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:58 PM   #6299
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Old 11-24-2011, 12:04 AM   #6300
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Any thoughts on this ........

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...lix-trinidad/1

Makes no sense to me at all,so many boxers/sports stars go broke spending money on stupid things.But this has to be near top of the list for real dumb things to do.Most people sue Don King when they leave him,to give someone who is worth 50x what you are worth half a million is close to crazy.

A car, a ring etc etc ,fair enough .But 500k in cash ,must be more to it .

King makes some people millions ,but steals 100s of millions whilst doing it .
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