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Old 09-18-2011, 01:16 AM   #5326
mike ski
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by Hoya View Post
I agree, Cortez should have been paying attention instead of looking like he was having a stroke. But either way, the fight was on and Ortiz needed to be defending himself.
If you constantly brag about how you're the best and how you're the greatest and all that, you don't win a fight like this. GOATS don't do this. Whatever, call me a hater but he's the epitome of what's wrong with boxing today.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:17 AM   #5327
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

After watching Ortiz find some success in this fight, my opinion has now shifted from "Floyd would be a small favorite against Manny" to the opposite. Manny is faster and hits just as hard, with more volume than Ortiz. He'd hurt mayweather at some point in their fight.

thoughts?
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:17 AM   #5328
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

So.... now take Floyd has his $40 million dollar check, how long before he steps into the ring again?

2012 is the last year Manny is going to fight, imo.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:20 AM   #5329
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by SuperUberBob View Post
Clapping hands DOES not signal a restart. A restart is done with hand motion (normally a chopping or pointing motion) in conjunction with a word "box" or "fight" (or something similar) said simultaneously. No verbal declaration was made and the physical gesture was unclear, meaning that the fight was not restarted.

Thus the fight should be a no contest. Both fighters should lose their purse and the referee should be fined/suspended.
No way. You can see Cortez say let's go and clap his hands. He is then checking with the ringside ref (in stripes), who also thinks the fight is restarted as he IMMEDIATELY starts counting and tells Cortez to start his count at 4 by the time he gets over there. Can see it very clearly in the replays. (and at 1:05 in above video that was posted.) Worst **** ever. Thankfully this was creekpaddled, feel legit bad for people who dropped cash.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:21 AM   #5330
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

In all seriousness though, the biggest disappointment of the whole thing, was Floyds posse not yelling "World Star! World Star!! Ah my ninja, this is going on World Star!"
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:21 AM   #5331
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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He also did it in his last fight with Shane. Only difference is Shane can take a punch.
I never got to watch that fight. Was going to download it but heard it was pretty much a snoozefest so didnt bother. But yea he's dirty. If was an opponent I wouldn't even touch gloves to start the fight.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:23 AM   #5332
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
After watching Ortiz find some success in this fight, my opinion has now shifted from "Floyd would be a small favorite against Manny" to the opposite. Manny is faster and hits just as hard, with more volume than Ortiz. He'd hurt mayweather at some point in their fight.

thoughts?
I'll have to see how Manny does against a good counter puncher in JMM. Pac did not look good in his last fight. It could have been because Mosley ran, ran, ran or because Pac's leg was cramping up. However, it's also possible, Manny is declining.

I have always favored Pac, but that will change if he looks bad against JMM (a guy he should KO at this point in their careers).
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:23 AM   #5333
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I never got to watch that fight. Was going to download it but heard it was pretty much a snoozefest so didnt bother. But yea he's dirty. If was an opponent I wouldn't even touch gloves to start the fight.
Nah, that's just dumb.

Act as if you're touching gloves, then punch him. Dirty but fair imo
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:24 AM   #5334
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

i mean, nobody disputes that floyd is a trashy POS. He beat the **** out of his woman, right? And held her and some kid semi-hostage in their house? Am I remembering that correctly?

And then the post-fight stuff with merchant as well. The racist rant about Pacman. This is just another reason i won't cry if he gets AIDS.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:24 AM   #5335
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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not mad, just confused how anyone could place much of the blame with manny's side. floyd is way, way, the reason the fight hasn't happened. And that's been extensively covered earlier in this thread.
ok, well i disagree. I think both are at fault, and i think that is quite obvious.

Pac demands excessive weight penalties, floyd demands excessive testing procedure. Fair enough, no?

After this theres been an ongoing "yes we agree, no we don't, yes we do, no we don't" times infinity.
And Floyds been going inactive, and delaying the fight doing that.

And if we speed it up until today, and recent time. Floyds been adamant about there being tests or no fight.
Bob Arum then says there won't be any testing. Then he goes and says they've accepted.
Then Konc says in an interview that while they did accept, they still want 14/21 day cutoff.

Subsequently bob arum says they are fine with the tests now, but that USADA is biased and they will only accept WADA to do the tests. Wada responds saying the only licence testings procedure to the likes of usada (in the us) and do no testing of their own.

You see DannyOcean, I'm tired of this bull****. I fear that even though Bob Arum NOW says that the tests are not an obstacle, i still think there will be some kind of a roadblock. Nothing about making this fight happen has been easy, and i don't expect it to be going forward.

I don't like Floyd as a person, and i think theres also a decent chance he puts up another roadblock. Like going inactive, but i fear that less because hes getting old and going inactive at this point = retirement for good.

I think It's unfair, and quite dumb to put all the blame on floyd for this fight falling through. I think the history of both men, and the info we have at hand suggests both are equally to blame.
May i suggest you are biased because you really like Manny Pacquiao and really dislike Floyd Mayweather? I know i can be at times.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:27 AM   #5336
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
After watching Ortiz find some success in this fight, my opinion has now shifted from "Floyd would be a small favorite against Manny" to the opposite. Manny is faster and hits just as hard, with more volume than Ortiz. He'd hurt mayweather at some point in their fight.

thoughts?
i think that if he fights like hes done against ortiz and mosley, Manny should be even money or possibly the slightest of favorite.

If he fights like he usually done at ww, i think hes a significant favorite. Manny is wideopen to be countered all night long.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:28 AM   #5337
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Not to get back into this whole mess, but I think people blame Floyd for the fight never happening because it was his initial "For the first time in my career, we need super strict testing" claim that was the first roadblock.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:29 AM   #5338
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Pac losing to ruin Floyds payday would be funny too. :/
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:30 AM   #5339
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Pac losing to ruin Floyds payday would be funny too. :/
Floyd just made ~$35mil for this abortion, he'll be ok for a while.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:33 AM   #5340
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Not to get back into this whole mess, but I think people blame Floyd for the fight never happening because it was his initial "For the first time in my career, we need super strict testing" claim that was the first roadblock.
This. The purse/split/ring/ref details were basically done, and the only thing in the way was that for the first time in his career floyd wanted super-strict testing taking blood up to the day before the fight. For a fighter who had never failed a drug test. Manny grew up dirt poor and uneducated in a third world environment, and is likely kinda dumb about most stuff, and was superstitious about drawing blood too close to the fight so he refused.

Manny agreed to all sorts of other stuff, but not blood within a certain timeframe before the fight. Floyd, at that point, was ducking the fight.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:33 AM   #5341
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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So.... now take Floyd has his $40 million dollar check, how long before he steps into the ring again?

2012 is the last year Manny is going to fight, imo.
I'd think there will be a rematch with Ortiz. Possibly in december or january?

If not, i still think he fight in May 2012, and in december 2012.
If he goes inactive once again, hes just done imo. Hard to find a lot of successful welterweights who fought at the top of their game at 36+(which he would be with another "vacation").

And whos out there? Amir Khan, Martinez and Manny Pacquiao.
I doubt he'd take on Martinez.

As i said in this thread, i think theres gonna be some problem getting the floydvspac fight for spring 2012. Theres so much money to be made by Arum and also golden boy with these two fighters. If they fight in may 2012, then who knows what the financial marketability hit will be for the loser.

If I'm gonna guess, i think;

1st half 2012
Floyd vs Khan
Pac vs Bradley

2nd half 2012
Floyd vs Manny
or
Manny vs Cotto/Margarito
Floyd vs Berto or maybe Alvarez
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:37 AM   #5342
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

I agree with you Richard Tanner. It's a tiring debate, and not something I'm looking to get heavily involved with. No good can come from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
This. The purse/split/ring/ref details were basically done, and the only thing in the way was that for the first time in his career floyd wanted super-strict testing taking blood up to the day before the fight. For a fighter who had never failed a drug test. Manny grew up dirt poor and uneducated in a third world environment, and is likely kinda dumb about most stuff, and was superstitious about drawing blood too close to the fight so he refused.
Theres a video of Roach early in the negotiation saying (to sechbach maybe) that floyd wants some olympic drug testign, and that they are fine with it.

There was also some info back then that the demand had always been there from day 1.

Yeah it's dumb and superstitious, and i can have some sympathy for it. But it's still stupid and unwarranted.

But whatever, thats been covered to the end of time already. I'm more annoyed with how Bob Arum keeps changing his tune as to whats agreeable and not all the time.

Quote:
Manny agreed to all sorts of other stuff, but not blood within a certain timeframe before the fight. Floyd, at that point, was ducking the fight.
I think they've both been ducking. If both are in the wrong i don't see how you can single out one fighter.

I also think the kind of matchmaking pacs been part of the last few years suggests he (or more likely his management) likes to take lesser risks than in previous years.

Both floyd and manny are a PITA to deal with. Thats just a fact.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:37 AM   #5343
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

who looks the worst tonight, in order

1. OMG THE REF - Cortez is beyond incompetent
2. Floyd - blatant cheapshot, fighting with merchant
3. Ortiz - terrible headbutt, but did apologize. Also just looks dumb for being trusting in a boxing ring.
4. seriously, cortez again, i can't believe how terrible he was.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:38 AM   #5344
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Floyd just made ~$35mil for this abortion, he'll be ok for a while.
sweet jesus

wtf is the point of going after pac when u can make this per fight going up against built up nobodies
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:38 AM   #5345
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Mayweather made $35 million for that ****. lol at boxing
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:39 AM   #5346
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
who looks the worst tonight, in order

1. OMG THE REF - Cortez is beyond incompetent
2. Floyd - blatant cheapshot, fighting with merchant
3. Ortiz - terrible headbutt, but did apologize. Also just looks dumb for being trusting in a boxing ring.
4. seriously, cortez again, i can't believe how terrible he was.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:39 AM   #5347
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by kingofcool View Post
Both floyd and manny are a PITA to deal with. Thats just a fact.
Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
who looks the worst tonight, in order

1. OMG THE REF - Cortez is beyond incompetent
2. Floyd - blatant cheapshot, fighting with merchant
3. Ortiz - terrible headbutt, but did apologize. Also just looks dumb for being trusting in a boxing ring.
4. seriously, cortez again, i can't believe how terrible he was.
and yep
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:40 AM   #5348
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Also,

5. The sport of boxing, which had a premier event sullied by all of the following: blatantly illegal blows, terrible sportsmanship, incompetent reffing, poor production, terrible commentary, awful interviewing, and classless threats to an old man.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:41 AM   #5349
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
who looks the worst tonight, in order

1. OMG THE REF - Cortez is beyond incompetent
2. Floyd - blatant cheapshot, fighting with merchant
3. Ortiz - terrible headbutt, but did apologize. Also just looks dumb for being trusting in a boxing ring.
4. seriously, cortez again, i can't believe how terrible he was.
As in to the majority of the viewers.

1) Floyd. By far. Hes already hated (for legit reasons), and in the end he was the one robbing the fans of what looked to be a pretty solid fight.
His outburst on a "sweet old man"(not, but w/e thats probably the perception) didn't help one bit.

2) Cortez. But people mostly don't care about the ref, and will forget it in a matter of days. Only us hardcores will care.

3) Ortiz. Should get more flack than he will get. It was a disgusting move, one of the worst in recent years. But that will be overshadowed by the actions of Mayweather.
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Old 09-18-2011, 01:42 AM   #5350
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by ItsRainingMen View Post
sweet jesus

wtf is the point of going after pac when u can make this per fight going up against built up nobodies
Who exactly are these built up nobodies that Mayweather has supposedly been fighting?

I don't even like Floyd, but whenever he fights so many clueless twice-a-year boxing "fans" come out of the woodwork that I end up feeling the need to defend him.
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