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Old 12-25-2009, 03:05 AM   #501
EddiePlaysO8
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Yeah, Arum wears his heart on his sleeve, at least that's the way he makes it look. I guess he acts that way to make it seem like he's sincere. This is the fight game. I'm just annoyed that they always have to act like babies when negotiating.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:07 AM   #502
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

this fight needs Don King imo
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:08 AM   #503
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddiePlaysO8 View Post
Yeah, Arum wears his heart on his sleeve, at least that's the way he makes it look. I guess he acts that way to make it seem like he's sincere. This is the fight game. I'm just annoyed that they always have to act like babies when negotiating.

a fight of this magnitude, its always something. if its not the gloves, its the size of the ring or who the referee is or who the judges are. this is common for megafights. actually, i am suprised they have come as far as they have in such a short time.

this is more than just a fight. this is everything they have worked for their entire lives... everything they dreamed of as little boys on the line when they step in that ring against each other. no one wants to give and inch. but, in the end as always, they start looking at all those damn zeros and say o.k... lets get it on.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:54 AM   #504
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevielarson View Post
well they do it for endurance athletes all of the time right up to and during competition. in cycling for example they are pulling blood morning of the events sometimes, including during stages of the grand tours like the tour de france. i dont believe it is that much and i would find it hard to argue that the blood lost is more important to a boxer than a cyclist.

as for how it actually effects your arm i dont have a clue.

edit to add that i think there is a pretty big flaw in having scheduled testing. with the complexity of the drugs they have now any doping plan can be tailored so that a guy can stop doping X number of days before the test and show up clean day of. also, i dont think a lot of the new stuff will even show up in urine testing so it would seem that random blood testing is the best way to determine if a guy is clean.

This post made me think about the preservation level of blood versus urine also. The Olympic testing would probably keep both their blood on file and be able to test them in the future if a new drug that wasn't tested for comes out after the fact. I have no clue if this is possible with urine but I would guess it is something that isn't being done as it is with blood.


I think it is weird that Manny would agree to blood but not by the leading agency involved. Wonder what the differences are between the agencies?

Does anyone know? Is it the randomness (which I agree is very important)? Do the agencies have different procedures in how long they keep the samples on file?

I understand some of this may be contributed to gamesmanship, but just guessing at the differences between testing agencies makes me a tiny bit suspicious where I wasn't before. I could easily let go of these slight suspicions if I were to learn the differences between the agencies and reasoning for not wanting the Olympic committee involved.

While I don't think it is the case for anyone in particular, it wouldn't be shocking to me to find out that an athlete that has the money making ability that these two have could have a chemist on staff inventing new drugs that aren't being tested for at this time.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:44 AM   #505
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by $kill Game View Post
For such a big fight, with understandable suspicions about pacquiao in relation to peds (snip)
Humor me. Provide links.
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Old 12-25-2009, 06:30 AM   #506
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by $kill Game View Post
Really?

Every other detail was agreed to no problems. And quite frankly, not that im an expert on testing, but is a couple pricks at random times leading up to the fight that big of a deal? Especially considering the magnitude of this fight. It's shocking how many people are more pissed at mayweather>pacquiao in regards to this itt.

And that's a terrible analogy.
Nope, no need to go beyond what the NSAC requires only because your opponent says so.

Schaefer thinks so too. http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24322. But maybe only when it favors his side.

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Old 12-25-2009, 06:32 AM   #507
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by $kill Game View Post
For such a big fight, with understandable suspicions about pacquiao in relation to peds,
LOL. Please humor me too.
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:31 AM   #508
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpitt398 View Post
This post made me think about the preservation level of blood versus urine also. The Olympic testing would probably keep both their blood on file and be able to test them in the future if a new drug that wasn't tested for comes out after the fact. I have no clue if this is possible with urine but I would guess it is something that isn't being done as it is with blood.


I think it is weird that Manny would agree to blood but not by the leading agency involved. Wonder what the differences are between the agencies?

Does anyone know? Is it the randomness (which I agree is very important)? Do the agencies have different procedures in how long they keep the samples on file?

I understand some of this may be contributed to gamesmanship, but just guessing at the differences between testing agencies makes me a tiny bit suspicious where I wasn't before. I could easily let go of these slight suspicions if I were to learn the differences between the agencies and reasoning for not wanting the Olympic committee involved.

While I don't think it is the case for anyone in particular, it wouldn't be shocking to me to find out that an athlete that has the money making ability that these two have could have a chemist on staff inventing new drugs that aren't being tested for at this time.
From what I understand, Manny's camp only has a problem with the randomness of the Olympic style testing since that means a test can be conducted a day before the fight or even the day of the fight, which Manny clearly does not want. Freddie Roach asked Mayweather's camp if they can guarantee a blood test won't be conducted 24-48 hours before the fight and they said no. I have read that some Olympians were frustrated with the testing because they had to submit to too many tests.

I do not know of any other differences.
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:35 AM   #509
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Seems fake. Those quotes are very uncharacteristic of Manny.
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:11 AM   #510
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by George Jackson View Post
a fight of this magnitude, its always something. if its not the gloves, its the size of the ring or who the referee is or who the judges are. this is common for megafights. actually, i am suprised they have come as far as they have in such a short time.

this is more than just a fight. this is everything they have worked for their entire lives... everything they dreamed of as little boys on the line when they step in that ring against each other. no one wants to give and inch. but, in the end as always, they start looking at all those damn zeros and say o.k... lets get it on.
Oh for sure, with around $50 mil at stake, there's no way this isn't getting done.

Now this is interesting, if they let it go to arbitration, it'll be resolved rather painlessly.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...ng-divide.html
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:17 AM   #511
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by vinceman View Post
Nope, no need to go beyond what the NSAC requires only because your opponent says so.

Schaefer thinks so too. http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24322. But maybe only when it favors his side.

About Mosley, now he's a guy that doesn't deny taking drugs, but he said that he didn't know it at the time. Of course Golden Boy's stance on the testing isn't an absolute, it depends on which side they're negotiating for.

I totally agree that the NSAC testing policy is the only thing necessary.
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:34 PM   #512
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by trippy View Post
From what I understand, Manny's camp only has a problem with the randomness of the Olympic style testing since that means a test can be conducted a day before the fight or even the day of the fight, which Manny clearly does not want. Freddie Roach asked Mayweather's camp if they can guarantee a blood test won't be conducted 24-48 hours before the fight and they said no. I have read that some Olympians were frustrated with the testing because they had to submit to too many tests.

I do not know of any other differences.
To further clarify, the *US Anti-Doping Agency is rigid on it's protocol. They conduct tests to their exact procedure and are unwilling to deviate from it even if both Mayweather and pac agrees to it.
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:44 PM   #513
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by sportsjefe View Post
Humor me. Provide links.
Look at any other athlete in 90s and 00s who put on a lot of weight quickly and dominated his sport as much as pacquiao has.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:34 PM   #514
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

lol @ Pac. your a ****ing joke.

Last edited by GREEAR10; 12-25-2009 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:17 PM   #515
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Look at any other athlete in 90s and 00s who put on a lot of weight quickly and dominated his sport as much as pacquiao has.
Lol typical. The Mayweather camp and their army of ignorant, gullible cronies have been trying to insist his rise in weight is without a doubt suspicious and impossible.

Believe it or not, you are allowed to rehydrate after the "official" weigh in that is usually held 30 hours before the fight. Even though Manny "officially" weighed 130 or what have you in his earlier fights, after rehydrating, he was around 145 by fight night, which is his more natural weight.

He was clearly drying himself out to make weight in his earlier fights, thus possibly making him less effective. Now that his last 3 fights against DLH, Hatton, and Cotto were more natural for him, and didn't have to dry up so much to make weight, he demolished them since he is finally fighting where he is supposed to be.

Here is an interesting unbiased link that breaks down his weight since 2006. Clearly his in ring fight night weight has been pretty consistent even when he fought in lightweight.

(Cool little EV-like graph included lol)

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The...s_are_baseless


This whole cop out about "Manny gaining 15-20 lbs of sheer muscle while keeping his speed and increasing his punching power in a little more than a year" is the kind of scum that the Mayweathers have been peddling and you fools believe it.

No I'm not a Pactard. I'm not saying he's 100% clean either. I just want to see this fight as I'm a fan of both fighters, for different reasons. Manny for his exciting fights, and Floyd for his skills and defense.

But I CANNOT stand Mayweather as a human being. He is a manipulative sack of scum and I for one am glad Manny is suing all of them for what they've done. This has gone too far. GBP is a two faced double standard rotten company and they deserve it for ruining this fight.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:33 PM   #516
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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This whole cop out about "Manny gaining 15-20 lbs of sheer muscle while keeping his speed and increasing his punching power in a little more than a year" is the kind of scum that the Mayweathers have been peddling and you fools believe it.
How is that scum? It's the truth.

His 4 best performances have been his last 4 fights. Does Freddie Roach and Manny's constant evolution as a fighter have a big part to do with that? Sure.

However, pacquiao's domination (speed/strength/punching power) in his last 4 fights while moving up weight hadn't been matched in boxing history, and in modern day sports you're a fool to be ignorant to the high probability he's on peds.

Having said that, I hope he doesn't get caught as that would lessen his mystique and the mystique of the fight.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:34 PM   #517
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4771718

lol Pac suing Mayweather for defamation. People have no idea what is entailed when it comes to suing someone. Usually the convo goes like this:

Friend #1: That's messed up, you should sue him bro.
Friend #2: Yeah I definitely should! I'm gonna sue him...ok so what now.

I like how he has so little clue as to what is entailed in "defamation of character" that he thinks people drawing conclusions from Mayweather's insistence on PED testing, is the same thing as Mayweather actually saying that he's using PEDs (which would also not be defamation of character btw).
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Old 12-25-2009, 06:03 PM   #518
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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I think it is weird that Manny would agree to blood but not by the leading agency involved.
Do you think Mayweather would consent to testing done by the Filipino Anti-Drug Association?
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Old 12-25-2009, 06:03 PM   #519
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Look at any other athlete in 90s and 00s who put on a lot of weight quickly and dominated his sport as much as pacquiao has.
Pacquiao weighed in at 144 on the night of the Marquez rematch. He then weighed 143 for Cotto, when the limit was 145, which strongly suggests he wasn't cutting much weight. He has probably put in about 5 lbs of muscle in the last couple of years. He looks pretty much the same.

Going back further, these weighins differ by two days short of six years.





That is just not that much muscle to put on. 18 lbs officially (that is ignoring any rehydration issues), in 6 years. That is 3 lbs a year, for a world class athlete, famous for training like a demon, starting from a skinny frame, going from age 24 to age 30.

Now, talking about comparisons, you used to have an Arturo Gatti avatar, right? Please correct me if I am wrong. In October 1997, he weighed in at 130 lbs. In March 2001, he weighed in at 146 lbs. So, he officially put on 16 lbs, in less than three and a half years! Do you suspect he did this naturally, or with 'help'?

Edit: Oh yah, Floyd officially put on 15 lbs in 3 years, 6 months and 4 days, why are you not accusing him of anything?

Last edited by PartyGirlUK; 12-25-2009 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 06:19 PM   #520
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

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Originally Posted by $kill Game View Post
How is that scum? It's the truth.

His 4 best performances have been his last 4 fights. Does Freddie Roach and Manny's constant evolution as a fighter have a big part to do with that? Sure.

However, pacquiao's domination (speed/strength/punching power) in his last 4 fights while moving up weight hadn't been matched in boxing history, and in modern day sports you're a fool to be ignorant to the high probability he's on peds.

Having said that, I hope he doesn't get caught as that would lessen his mystique and the mystique of the fight.
Far from the truth, friend. Please reread my post. Let me reiterate for you so maybe you can understand. Pay attention.

Athletes, especially boxers and wrestlers, can lose 10+lbs by dramatically lowering the amount of fluid intake days prior to a weigh in. Manny did exactly this 3 years ago during his Jr lightweight and lightweight campaigns because they're decided from 135 and below. He would weigh 130 in the official weigh in, and by fight night 30 hours later, weigh about 145.

Manny didn't have to do so against his last 3 (DLH, Hatton, Cotto) opponents because those bouts were to be decided at weights of 144 to 147 where Manny didn't have to dry up, weigh in, and rehydrate.

Clearly you didn't get the point. It's not muscle he put on, it's fluids he didn't intake/didn't have to intake. At least read the linked article because you obviously didn't since your response is so thin.

Also, when or if you read the article I linked, take a look at Floyd's weight increase through out his last 5 fights. They're identical to Manny's. So why aren't you accusing Floyd of the same thing?

Scum. And you bought it.
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #521
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

As to Manny's dominant performances over the past 4 fights, let's break it down. Here's the non-drug argument.

Early 2008, vs Marquez, SD win, Manny states in 24/7 (either the Hatton or Cotto one) that he has to do something different. He decides that he's going to start watching tape of his opponents. Good thing because even though he won this fight. Marquez was was turning him quite effectively. Manny was catching a lot of air.

Next up was David Diaz, he was so dominant vs Diaz because he was a few classes above Diaz. This fight showed the amazing combinations that Pac can put together. Diaz was just a couple steps too slow.

Then comes DLH, Roach said he noticed that DLH had IV marks in his arm during the prefight face-off. Roach tells Manny to go right after him. I won't say DLH was washed up but having to make 147 was a big factor. DLH was also a few steps too slow. Manny's footwork was awesome in this fight. DLH had no answer for Manny's lead left. Manny was turning him like crazy.

Hatton just sucks, coming face forward without his hands up. Someone with good pop was bound to nail him perfectly and I'm glad Manny did it.

Lastly Cotto, we already know Cotto is a "chinny" fighter starting when he used to fight at 140. Manny was eventually able to use Cotto's aggression against him. So I'm not surprised Cotto got hurt. He was hurt many times in the past.

I think there is a strong correlation between Pac's tape research and his performance in his last few fights. Roach does it all the time. It was good thing that Manny picked up on this too.

When Pac was still fighting at featherweight, Boxing writers were already saying he had welterweight power. I wouldn't say his past 4 performances were his best. Back in 2003 against Barrera has to be up there and his 2nd fight against Morales was really good. The big thing with Pac is that he's not cutting much at 147 and he has his speed still. He's been faster than every opponent in his last 4 fights.

Last edited by EddiePlaysO8; 12-25-2009 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 12-26-2009, 03:20 AM   #522
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Quote:
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Do you think Mayweather would consent to testing done by the Filipino Anti-Drug Association?
If it is a WADA approved agency I'm sure he would. The protocols should be the same. WADA vs. the nevada agency is a big difference.
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:40 PM   #523
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Latest News:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4772853

-Floyd/Scheafer is OK with another agency doing the testing.
-Both sides have agreed to random blood and urine testing.
-The only thing left is determining the cut off date.
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:14 PM   #524
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

Skill Game's posts in this thread are terrible.
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:16 PM   #525
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re: SE Boxing Thread (still waiting for PBF v. Pac)

100% of posts you make are terrible
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