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Old 09-18-2017, 07:56 AM   #25026
RichGangi
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Yeah, I gave Canelo maybe 5 rounds. LOL at 10.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:21 PM   #25027
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

GGG won clearly. Even a draw is a pretty bad scorecard imo. The media had like 90% in favour of GGG and 10% draw.
LOL boxing for not changing a system that has been aids for decades.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:12 PM   #25028
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

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Old 09-18-2017, 06:39 PM   #25029
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

This has been a fantastic year for boxing.
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Old 09-18-2017, 08:42 PM   #25030
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

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This has been a fantastic year for boxing.
Ya, matches actually getting made!

I think a lot of boxers were really frustrated with the politics and protected fighters, and that helped things along. Khan and Brook were both very vocal when they stepped up to fight GGG and Canelo, and I'd imagine lots of others were behind closed doors. Felt bad for Rigondeaux in particular that nobody would fight him but now even he has a worthy opponent lined up!

Hopefully the trend continues and we get some unified champs next year
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Old 09-18-2017, 09:11 PM   #25031
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Canelo is too good looking and to be as PC as possible humans are incapable of accurately judging sexes that they are attracted to.

El guapo rojo


Spoiler:
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:45 PM   #25032
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra_Z_Boy View Post
I don't think GGG got hurt at all, even when Canelo landed good shots.

GGG landed more often and was by far the more aggressive fighter, pushing the action constantly. I think it's hard if not nearly impossible to find 7 rounds for Canelo. 6 maybe...but that's on the edge. I also think 8 rounds for GGG is perfectly reasonable.
Yeah, I can see your argument definitely. It was a close fight, but it is not like GGG ran away with the fight. It was very close, and knowing that Canelo gets "Special" treatment when it comes to the judges, I figured it would go his way. I still haven't rewatched the fight, but I would agree that Canelo never truly hurt GGG, but he did cause more damage. GGG is just a freak though, and I don't think any middleweight could put him down. Canelo landed more power shots, and even though he was being walked down a lot of the fight, I think he got the better of the exchanges. I am a fan of GGG, he is a monster, and his KO's are impressive. He just looked slow, and ready to retire to me honestly. I do think Canelo should have squeezed out the win, but like I said, I need to rewatch the fight because, in the heat of the moment, it is hard to see what each fighter is landing. He just landed more clean shots, more power shots, and overall caused more damage ( Even though GGG was never in danger of going down or being stopped). Either was Canelo though, and for GGG to have so much "Power" it wasn't shown in this fight. He landed his jab and one good shot that connected with Canelo. Aside from that, I just think Canelo outboxed him. I know my opinion is in the minority, and like I said I am unbiased at all. I was in Vegas the day of the fight, and realistically I didn't want either fighter to lose. So I guess the draw wasn't such a bad outcome, although a bit of a letdown.

I am far from a boxing expert, I am just stating my opinion from what I saw during the fight. If it was Mayweather in the ring, and he was being defensive and "Running Away" he would still have gotten the decision.

I just didn't see the GGG that everyone expected, and that is why I bet on Canelo. I pushed, which sucks but better than losing. I think a rematch soon would be nice, and I would still take Canelo. He is improving, and in his prime, while GGG looked slow and tired.

I thought Canelo out landed him as well until I saw the CompuBox numbers, but even with GGG out landing Canelo, they were mostly weak jabs. He literally landed one good shot, that probably would have KO'ed most fighters.

Canelo did start to fade in the mid rounds, but I still think he picked up at least 7 for the W. I know there are many people who disagree, but really what did Golovkin do except land that jab. Not many power shots, and I honestly feel Canelo won that fight. if there is a rematch, I will bet even bigger on Canelo. GGG is just too old and slow, and Canelo is just reaching his prime. I don't see Canelo KO'ing GGG, but he should win on points. If GGG knocked Canelo down, then yeah he deserved the win, but the way I saw it, was Canelo outboxing him, landing more power shots, and even though he wasn't the aggressor, Mayweather often isn't either and stilll wins close fights. I mean think of Del La Hoya? That was a close fight, and Floyd really wasn't all that active but he got the win.

I'm far from a fanboy either, I bet on who I think will make me the most money with no emotions or fanboy involved.

I don't think GGG got robbed, and a draw is a reasonable outcome because it was a close fight, but I do still think Canelo had the slight edge. He out boxed GGG no doubt.

GGG even said if he leaves it up to the judges it is his own fault. No one likes a draw, but I just personally felt Canelo won the fight very closely.

I am hesitant to bet on boxing for this exact reason. I mean if I bet on GGG and saw the 118-110 card I would be outraged. That certainly didn't happen, but I do beleive Canelo won at least 7 rounds. Plus knowing that he is pretty much the future money in boxing, I thought they would give it to him. I think a rematch needs to happen within early next year, and I would still take Canelo. GGG has power, but is slow and just looking old. He has had a great career, and I think one more fight with Canelo and he should hang up the gloves.

Either way it was an entertaining fight, and I would probably purchase a rematch. Canelo is the future of the sport as far as I see it, and it was a very close fight, but I saw him winning very narrowly.

Neither fighter was hurt at any point in the fight, and I think the higher % of power shots should have gave Canelo the win. GGG did not fight like his past fights, and I just think that is because Canelo is a superior boxer overall. I mean who has GGG really beat? Not many top contenders, while Canelo has fought some of the best, and at age 27, he has a great career ahead of him.

It was entertaining, but I didn't win much money. I pushed on my straight up Canelo bet, and then won/lost some of my props.

If anything the draw was the correct outcome, but that 118-110 card was hideous.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:48 PM   #25033
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

I really believed that if GGG did not KO Canelo, then Canelo would get the decision. GGG looked slow, and really only landed one clean power punch. Aside from that, he was landing his jab really well, but is that enough to win the fight?
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:23 AM   #25034
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtspurs View Post
Felt bad for Rigondeaux in particular that nobody would fight him but now even he has a worthy opponent lined up!

Hopefully the trend continues and we get some unified champs next year
I mean, I guess. Rigondeaux turned pro at 30 and has like 1000 amateur wins. I wouldn't say people were ducking Rigondeaux that often, but he's not a great fighter to watch, took time to fill up a pro card, and well, now he's 36.

Lomachenko is in a similar spot to Rigondeaux regarding age and need to push the card faster to become relevant / make his money, so it's a good fit for sure. But I wouldn't say Rigondeaux wasn't getting fights made because no one would fight him; I think there were explainable circumstances around it all, and he *has* fought 18 times since turning pro 7+ years ago.
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:46 AM   #25035
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

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I mean, I guess. Rigondeaux turned pro at 30 and has like 1000 amateur wins. I wouldn't say people were ducking Rigondeaux that often, but he's not a great fighter to watch, took time to fill up a pro card, and well, now he's 36.

Lomachenko is in a similar spot to Rigondeaux regarding age and need to push the card faster to become relevant / make his money, so it's a good fit for sure. But I wouldn't say Rigondeaux wasn't getting fights made because no one would fight him; I think there were explainable circumstances around it all, and he *has* fought 18 times since turning pro 7+ years ago.
Rigondeaux was chasing Santa Cruz, Frampton and Quigg for years and none of them wanted any part of it. I'm a fan of both Santa Cruz and Frampton (and very proud of him as a fellow Irishman) but I firmly believe they moved up in weight to avoid Rigo.

If I were in their shoes, I would do exactly the same thing; it doesn't make business sense to take a loss, not make much money and ruin the trajectory of your career by being schooled by someone who isn't a big name.

I just feel sorry for the guy. It took him too long to adapt to being entertaining once he turned pro
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:37 AM   #25036
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

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I mean, I guess. Rigondeaux turned pro at 30 and has like 1000 amateur wins. I wouldn't say people were ducking Rigondeaux that often, but he's not a great fighter to watch, took time to fill up a pro card, and well, now he's 36.

Lomachenko is in a similar spot to Rigondeaux regarding age and need to push the card faster to become relevant / make his money, so it's a good fit for sure. But I wouldn't say Rigondeaux wasn't getting fights made because no one would fight him; I think there were explainable circumstances around it all, and he *has* fought 18 times since turning pro 7+ years ago.
People were definitely avoiding Rigo. People were moving up weight class just to avoid him.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:40 AM   #25037
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

I agree with both of you that those things happened, but it's explainable given what rtspurs said: No one is going to fight a 4-0 Rigondeaux for no money. To me, that's not ducking him, that's just business sense. Ducking would be a 18-0 Rigondeaux with a decent payday on the line and just not taking the fight out of terror (*cough* Paul Williams getting ducked regularly in his prime).

He's gotta fill out a pro card and starting at 30 that's tough.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:14 AM   #25038
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

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Old 09-19-2017, 06:22 AM   #25039
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)



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Old 09-19-2017, 09:53 AM   #25040
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Who's he going to fight? Stig Tofting?
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:00 AM   #25041
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

He will fight Freddie Flintoff
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Old 09-19-2017, 01:19 PM   #25042
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

When the GGG-Canelo fight ended I said, throw out all the round by round stuff and just judge it as a fight. Who beat up the other guy the most? On that basis I declared it a draw and was satisfied with the decision. I thought the 118-110 score was pretty bad but I'm wondering if it was that horrible. If you greatly valued hard clean power shots as some judges do then I can understand seeing Canelo getting the best of it.

I think it's ironic that the 118-110 score is being compared to the Bradley-Pacquiao I decision for badness when the two fights were similar. Except with Bradley-Pacquiao everyone thought Pacquiao deserved the win for the hard clean power shots he landed despite Bradley's greater overall activity, while with GGG-Canelo everyone thinks GGG won for his greater activity despite Canelo's hard clean power shots.

I plan on watching the whole fight in slow motion when I get the chance. I may see it all differently after that.


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Old 09-19-2017, 01:29 PM   #25043
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Canelo did not land that many hard shots. Barely more than GGG. It's a completely different fight than the Pacquiao one.
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Old 09-19-2017, 01:32 PM   #25044
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

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When the GGG-Canelo fight ended I said, throw out all the round by round stuff and just judge it as a fight.
That's how boxing scoring works. That line of thinking is pointless for scoring purposes.

Quote:
I think it's ironic that the 118-110 score is being compared to the Bradley-Pacquiao I decision for badness when the two fights were similar. Except with Bradley-Pacquiao everyone thought Pacquiao deserved the win for the hard clean power shots he landed despite Bradley's greater overall activity, while with GGG-Canelo everyone thinks GGG won for his greater activity despite Canelo's hard clean power shots.
Your analogy is horrible.



Manny not only landed more but also threw with greater power. No doubt Pac/Bradley was a worse decision than this.

Canelo never hurt GGG once. Canelo was the one gassed out and tired because of the constant pressure. If anything he was suffering more in the ring than GGG as the latter never showed any ill effects of the attacks.
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:11 PM   #25045
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Frampton, Santa Cruz, Quigg, those guys all blatantly ducked Rigo post Donaire win. Even if Rigo was with a top promoter at the time, he'd of had great difficulty getting those fights, the opposing camps really wanted no part of him.

Honestly I think Rigo's ****ty management team and Bob Arum's awful promoting (in Rigo's specific case) had a lot to do with the terrible matchups post Donaire win. That victory was masterful at the time, and the first half of the fight was very exciting, yet Arum immediately ripped Rigo after the fight, his own fighter, instead of talking about how great it was. Rigo fought far more interestingly than many Ward, Hopkins or Floyd fights, and the former two plenty often don't bring in crowds relative to their skill. You need a promoter that has your back and Arum clearly didn't have his fighter's back.

Regarding GGG Canelo scores, the 118 card was as bad as the Bradley victory cards. The result (draw in GGG Canelo case, win for Bradley in that fight) is not equal in my mind though.

I'd imagine good judges would score GGG Canelo something like 77% GGG, 20% draw, 3% Canelo while the other fight less than 10% would've scored a Bradley victory. I think GGG got a shorter end of the stick than Kovalev in his first Ward fight. The Garcia Herrera fight comes to mind as comparable to this one in terms of ****ty results/scoring.
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:53 PM   #25046
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

if you're not Mexican and think a draw is a fair result you need to reevaluate your scoring method

it's "fair" in a sense that everyone and their mother expected Canelo to win a decision, actual fight notwithstanding, so it's almost great news that only one of the judges submitted an insane scoring card
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:36 AM   #25047
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Andre Ward's retired.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:49 AM   #25048
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Yeah I came to post that he is about to join max and *barf* Stephen a on first take

Good for him I guess I gotta be honest as good as he is I don't really care for his fights that much but I was kind of hoping he would fight Adonis. Maybe now kovalev Adonis will happen which is prob more entertaining in the buildup and actual fight anyway
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:46 PM   #25049
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

Meh, great fighter who wanted most of his prime in a legal dispute.

Seemed like a decent guy but he won't be missed.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:01 PM   #25050
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Re: SE Boxing Thread (not waiting for PBF v. Pac II)

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Meh, great fighter who wanted most of his prime in a legal dispute.

Seemed like a decent guy but he won't be missed.
Pretty much this.

Other than his fights against Froch and Kovalev, I didn't think any of his matches were remotely close to entertaining.

Guy is a sure first-ballot Hall of Famer.

For the record, I think he makes a comeback fight a few years from now.
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