Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJacket
They came to be considered great by beating what people perceive as great/good fighters. Now that there are a thousand different weight classes and a million different title belts in each one it is very difficult to get true recognition for how good someone is. It is easy to spot a skilled fighter but we have no idea how good a fighter they are.
First of all, who cares about alphabet titles? Is that what make greatness? I hardly think so.
And there were almost the same amount of weightclasses when Ray Leonard fought as there is today. Welterweight, superwelter, middle etc.
The added weightclasses today are Cruiser and supermiddle.
The difference now, is that we have Guerrero, Malignaggi, Kell Brook, Andre Berto and three natural lightweights at the top in welter.
When Leonard fought we had Hearns, Duran, Benitez, Ray Leonard.
Put either of these 4 in todays welter and they will probably be the #1 guy.
That's why neither Pac or Floyd is considered a great welter but rather a great feather or superfeather. That's where they could wreak havoc among the All time greats of past eras.
So all in all, how is it harder to make a historical p4p list than it is to make a p4p list of the current fighters? It's speculative and based on merit, just as it is today.
Beating Benitez, Duran, Hearns, Hagler is such an achievement compared to beating Hatton, Cotto, Castillo that it's hard to even compare.
Quote:
"Any contender from the 70s heavyweight boxing would be considered just as great or greater if they fought today."
This is just a silly statement really.
Well, they wouldn't as they would be facing dog**** quality of fighter outside of the Klitschkos. But They would absolutely be dominating everyone outside of the brothers with a very decent shot at beating them as well.
Because they are much better fighters than almost any hw fighter of today.
Top5 of a random year in the 70s probably was Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers or young.
And that's excluding Larry Holmes who came in late 70s.
Today top5 is probably Klitschkox2, David Haye, Povetkin, Adamek.
It's just a completely different class of athletes.
And this is true for most weights. The notable exception is supermiddleweight and superbantam.
This discussion is getting kind of watered down itself. Is it your opinion that we can't know that past fighters have had greater accomplishments, do you feel todays fighters are just as good/better, or do you feel it's a waste of time to play around with p4p lists?
I only agree with the last statement. It's a waste of time and not worth much weight, but it's a fun thing to do.
If you agree with the first two statements i disagree.
Mainly because the "past eras" are consisted of 100 years+ while todays era is maybe 10 years = more athletes to choose from "yesterday" than today. Also the sport was bigger in almost all past eras than it is today = more athletes in any given period and better athletes that didn't pick other sports.
There's an argument for the "evolved athlete" but that's only a factor if you can pinpoint how the training is different today than it used to be. In a primitive sport like boxing, that's seldom the case.
If you disagree with that we'll just have to spare everyone involved from a huge spamfest and agree to disagree.
Last edited by kingofcool; 12-12-2012 at 06:28 AM.