Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
undefeated, he doesn't catch more **** because he's been actively trying to set up the mayweather fight to no avail
he tried to set up the big fight. doesn't change that he's fighting a very meh opponent, but it helps deflect criticism.
Also, more of the blame goes to Arum imo. Floyd makes all his own decisions and everybody knows it. Floyd has the whole persona built up on purpose, 'Money' Mayweather, etc. He's in charge and he loves to flaunt it. Pac is kind of the opposite, he prefers to chill in the Philippines and have nothing to do with negotiations. He basically tells Arum to get a fight and then fights. It's another reason why he generally gets less blame when fights fall apart. It's not Pac actually deciding on Cotto/Cheato. It's Arum, and everybody knows it.
1) Actively trying to set up a mayweather fight? How?
Do you mean the first time around when his camp said OKNP in regards to random testings and then backing out? Rejecting the 14-day cutoff compromise that they apparently have no problem with now? When team Pacquiao canceled the first negotiation?
Or do you mean this second time when there were not even any direct negotiations camp to camp (and according to one side, none at all indirectly even), and when they knew Mayweathers trainer had an upcoming courtdate that very likely will send him to prison thus making the fight pretty much impossible?
They both are to be blamed for this fight not happening. You just said it was just a PR war at this point. Why was 14-days cutoff not OK the first time around, but when they(he) knows Floyd won't accept the fight (and has taken the offer off the table) he is perfectly fine with the terms?
2) I don't agree with this. Manny is responsible for every decision that gets made and he himself is the one with the final decision. We have heard countless of times about Bob Arum taking trips to the ph. to get Manny to agree to various points.
Floyd, just as Manny, makes decisions with the help of advisors and managers. I don't get how this should warrant his actions.
Besides, Floyd never got the benefit of the doubt when he was signed with Top rank either.
Bob Arum is a huge part in this whole mess, but ultimately, it's Pacquiao that is responsible.
But if you are saying Manny is managed by a bunch of clowns, then i would have to agree.
So is Floyd fwiw. I seriously suspect some people in his camp is borderline ******ed.
May i ask how you would feel if the fight falls through in 2011 because Floyd wants a 60/40 or 55/45 money split? Would you blame Floyd for the fight not happening?
I bet you 9/10 would, no matter the FACT that Floyd has consistantly outsold Manny and actually deserves the bigger split. Why would anyone want to leave 5-10 million dollars on the table?
This is part of the problem i have with Manny, his camp and his "blindfolded" fans. He is obviously a fantastic fighter, but his image is that of a pure churchgoing saint, when in fact he is one of the biggest arrogant dbag egomaniacs in the sport. Kind of like Oscar De la Hoya. I really don't get it when people say he is one of the most humble and likeable athlete around.
Sorry for the long incoherent ramblings.
/rant
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFgators50
Please name some other catchweight or drainage fights Pac had. I agree the Margo fight sucks but Margo is a welterweight, its not like hes gonna be hurt at the weight. Was it a joke that one of Voids precious belts came from beating a part time Oscar and another came from beating Gatti. How about Floyd forcing Marquez to come up in weight and fighting Hatton at 147 when all hed done previously was get a gift over Collazo.
Ehh.. Erik Morales, De la Hoya, Miguel Cotto and the upcoming Margarito fight for example? Trying to get Mosley to agree to a 142lbs weightlimit?
Erik drained to a ghost and forced to fight at a weight he couldn't make anymore. Also a 500k penalty per pound overweight.
De la Hoya, you all know the story. Coming in to the fight 20lbs under his normal rehydrated weight and weighing less than Pacquiao.
When Floyd fights a tuneup vs JMM it is such a big deal, but when Pacquiao fights a guy coming up two weightclasses for a title (Oscar Larios) no one has anything to say.
I like how you try to compare Pacquiaos actions to that of Floyds. The difference between those being? Floyd gets an overload of **** thrown his way while Pacquiao gets close to none. You only prove my point.
Also, not everything Pacquiao does has to be compared to Floyd. He is a unique person and his actions should be judged based on the same criteria as everyone else.
I was gonna post a loooong ang boring compilation of points, arguments and facts, but i really cant be bothered with it anymore.
This discussion is so tiresome and it has been ongoing nonstop for over a year now. That is the reason i quit posting on boxing-forums, and i fault myself for not being able to control my impulses to post about the same old tired bull**** in this thread as well.
I will try to not get engaged in these types of moronic discussions again until it is relevant. Nothing can be said that hasn't already been bickered and dissected to death already elsewhere.
I will post a link to several videos that will explain the shadiness of Pacquiaos behavior (incl his camp) just as well as i would be able to in more than a thousand words.
Everyone interested in Pacquiao or the drama revolving this, hopefully, upcoming superfight should watch these videos to at least get a glimpse of the often not told side of the story. At the very least, they are somewhat entertaining.
If you disagree with anything, feel free to do so. But dispute it with facts or at the very least, logic. Needless to say, i didn't make these videos, and no i am not about to go into a lengthy debate about minor points.
Vid 1; The excuses when losing to Morales, the ducking of Raheem to fight a drained Morales etc..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wg3XgmDSxI
Vid 2; Mosley, Cotto, Oscar, Hatton.. Dispelling the myth of Floyd only fighting smaller fighters while Pacquiao is the "little guy".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpxtKlVQqCU
Vid 3; Some of the controversies surrounding the negotiation for Pac vs May, Roach talking about RANDOMDRUGTESTS?NP!, Roach's past history with steroids and a little bit of this and that..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7RAg1shM0
Vid 4; The fights vs JMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJZoCnqNRM
Bonusvid; Pacquiaos die hard fans often cite Bert Sugars opinion on his place in boxing history (best southpaw ever etc) and here we get to see how confusing his opinions can be at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZnc4sQKaY
None is perfect, especially not Floyd or Manny. All i ask for is to be fair and give props when its due but also criticism.
For Manny to now once again fight a catchweight titlefight is so weak i can't even describe it. You might say it doesn't matter, but it does. Especially when a man (pac) tries to use the amount of divisional championships as a marketing, and legacy building tool.
People will just see "OMG8DIVISIONWORLDCHAMP" without actually realising atleast three of those were pure BS. Two catchweight titles and one paperchamp vs the weakest possible champ at the weight (David Diaz).
This video demonstrates how i view these fanatical Manny Pacquiao fans that tilts me to no end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAynrE91tYs
Oh well. As i said, i should have known better than to get dragged into these kinds of discussions again. It's just tiresome and a huge waste of time.
Hopefully this thread can focus on actual boxing and not only the Pacquiao vs Floyd drama. Because im sick of it.