Reffing in the NFL: Changing game outcomes to save $3 million - Page 4 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

No. You should try soccer refs, cricket refs before they had TV replays and Hawkeye, rugby league refs, rugby union refs. As a British guy, I'm constantly impressed with how good NFL reffing is. Fair enough, there are 7 of them but even so, they're good.

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11-15-2010 , 01:02 PM

#77

Carpal \'Tunnel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by prohornblower

I thought that was Ed Hochuli refilling that coke vending machine.

No, he's the guy that'll sue if it falls on you.

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11-18-2010 , 01:19 AM

#78

squeek12

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,751

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Tanner

Uhhhh, refs aren't forced to have a job, to my knowledge. Did I miss a rule change?

Second hand information on my part. My dad and Carl Johnson have been friends for years and he told me that Carl had to keep his job at Coke even though he was making plenty of money as a ref. The gambling thing was just the justification I was given when I asked why. Of course when he was promoted he resigned and moved to NY.

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12-19-2010 , 03:30 PM

#79

Riverman

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bump for like 15 awful calls in the last 90 minutes

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12-19-2010 , 03:32 PM

#80

Francis_MH

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Refs either a) have no clue what a catch is or b) have different interpretations of what a catch is. Both of these are major problems.

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12-19-2010 , 03:34 PM

#81

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Mike Carey and Kubiak should switch jobs. Odds anyone would notice???

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12-19-2010 , 03:39 PM

#82

LirvA

banned

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inconsistent referring = part of the variance of football?

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12-19-2010 , 03:42 PM

#83

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Originally Posted by LirvA

inconsistent referring = part of the variance of football?

Of course, but there are degrees to everything.

Umpires having different strike zones in baseball=variance

but

Umpires with different strike zones=/= Umpires not knowing what constitutes a hit

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12-19-2010 , 06:13 PM

#84

darthtrader3.6

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 869

Tried watching Tebow but can't take the refs. NFL is a ****ing joke, its officiating with some variance based on playing football.

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12-19-2010 , 09:09 PM

#85

prohornblower

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Costas just grilled Goodell pretty strongly about all things football, yet neither person mentioned the horrendous officiating epidemic.

I'm all for an 18-game season and protecting players and dishing out fines for illegal hits and stuff but FFS let's fix the officiating first, eh?

Goodell is buying rims and nitrous and a stereo system for his car and he doesn't realize the engine needs work.

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12-20-2010 , 11:09 AM

#86

Riverman

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dude nobody knows what constitutes a catch. this is a pretty obvious problem.

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12-20-2010 , 01:04 PM

#87

prohornblower

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Originally Posted by Mike McGroin

in case you did not realize reffing football games is really tough. its pretty hard to interpret a catch going to the ground on reply let alone in real time. oh, and trying to judge the hits on qbs in real time is pretty damn hard too.

so, what if the refs were paid double and trained 30 hrs a week? would the officiating be better. i don't know because the refs generally understand the rules its just very hard to see everything at real speed. alot of calls are judgement calls that cannot be reviewed.

as for helmet to helmet hits on defenseless receivers its pretty hard to argue that there should always be a fine. when a receiver lowers his head really far its basically impossible to not hit him in the head without completely stopping (if that's even possible at full speed.) the nfl needs to face the reality that there will always be high speed helmet to helmet collisions on occasion and all they can do is make sure players don't do it intentionally.

Hi Roger

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12-20-2010 , 01:07 PM

#88

prohornblower

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Originally Posted by Mike McGroin

is that the ref's problem? or is it a rule problem. the catches when the ball scrapes the ground are hardest to interpret obviously. you can see a replay and not know which way the official will go.

reffing an nfl game is ****ing hard. i don't think its possible to get a perfectly reffed game.

The point is that it's someone's problem. The NFL has a hard time interpreting/enforcing fundamental things such as, like, catches and stuff. And they're talking about expanding to 18 games. Expanding a product that isn't yet polished enough.

Another problem is you see officials make calls based on the assumption that the coach will challenge and they can get a better look at it. Sometimes the coach doesn't challenge though. The officials need to make calls on the field as well as possible and not lean on the replay.

Also stop blowing the ****ing whistle so soon before a play is actually over.

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12-20-2010 , 04:06 PM

#89

prohornblower

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Why are you relegating the awfulness to just the refs? The point is there is uncertainty among the refs, which largely comes down from above.

It's not that people are saying high school refs would do better FFS. The entire system has flaws. The refs on-field can only do so much with the shoddy rules.

I ump'ed little league baseball for a year and it was ****ing hard. I'm not typically someone who rags on refs. But the system itself isn't great.

I didn't struggle as a little league umpire because of the rules in place. I struggled because I sucked at it and assumed it would be really easy since playing baseball was easy.

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12-20-2010 , 06:41 PM

#90

Francis_MH

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I think the current challenge system of replay needs to go in favor of a system where the booth calls for replay.

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12-20-2010 , 06:58 PM

#91

Debo9

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something that was really bad was yesterday in the jets/steelers game. steelers first and 10 on the 35, mendy runs it for 9 yards. replay shows a clear 9 yards. the sideline crew all had it as 2nd down, didn't move the first down marker. the refs said it was first down, and had them move it.

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12-20-2010 , 07:09 PM

#92

SMIGLET

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officiating in the nfl isnt exactly amazing, but its far superior to that of the nba or mlb

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12-20-2010 , 07:13 PM

#93

shipitkthx

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,094

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dids

All reffing conversations are basically

1- yes technology
2- no ego
3- better accountability when 2 gets in the way of 1

Humans can't be prefect and the biggest problem is that refs/umps don't want to admit that, and thus the systems put in place to assist them don't get used optimally because nobody can admit that it's ****ing hard to call balls and strikes or PI or whatever.

I don't know if you see as much runaway ego in the NFL as you do in baseball, but I would suspect it's still problematic.

This ^^^^^

I could think of dozens of improvements based on new technology, and i'm sure SE could come up with 100s, but its not gonna matter as long as officials get butt-hurt by the fact that their on the field calls are overruled by someone in a warm booth.

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12-20-2010 , 07:15 PM

#94

shipitkthx

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SMIGLET

officiating in the nfl isnt exactly amazing, but its far superior to that of the nba or mlb

MLB umpiring is at really bad low point, made worse by the fact that we have the technology to eliminate 90% of human error and could easily make that 99-100% if they weren't so ****ing stubborn.

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12-20-2010 , 09:04 PM

#95

prohornblower

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Originally Posted by Francis_MH

I think the current challenge system of replay needs to go in favor of a system where the booth calls for replay.

Meh, I kinda like that smarter coaches have an edge over dumb coaches re: challenging. I just hate that the refs make calls on the field that are the "safer" call, and just hope/assume the coach will challenge so they can take a better look.

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12-20-2010 , 11:11 PM

#96

Francis_MH

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But is erring on the side of calling something a fumble, for example, really safer? IIRC refs are encouraged to rule a loose ball a fumble.

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12-21-2010 , 03:44 PM

#97

TheNoodleMan

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Section 2 Fair Catch
Article 1 A Fair Catch is an unhindered catch of an airborne scrimmage kick that has
crossed the line of scrimmage, or of an airborne free kick, by a player of the receiving
team who has given a valid fair catch signal.
Article 2
Item 1: Valid Fair-Catch Signal. A fair-catch signal is valid if it is made while the kick
is in flight by a player who fully extends one arm above his helmet and waves it from
side to side. A receiver is permitted to legally raise his hand(s) to his helmet to shield
his eyes from the sun, but is not permitted to raise them above his helmet except to
signal for a fair catch.
Item 2: Invalid Fair-Catch Signal. If a player raises his hand(s) above his shoul-
der(s) in any other manner, it is an invalid fair-catch signal. If there is an invalid fair-
catch signal, the ball is dead when caught or recovered by any player of the receiv-
ing team, but it is not a fair catch. (The ball is not dead if it touches an opponent be-
fore or after it strikes the ground. See Article 3b).
Note: A fair-catch signal given behind the line of scrimmage on a scrimmage kick is ig-
nored and is neither valid nor invalid.
Penalty: For an invalid fair-catch signal: Loss of five yards from the spot of the
signal.

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12-28-2010 , 11:00 PM

#98

Riverman

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bump for nobody has any idea what a catch is

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12-28-2010 , 11:02 PM

#99

dkgojackets

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that seems to be an epidemic this year

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12-29-2010 , 11:30 AM

#100

Dids

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Quote:

Originally Posted by prohornblower

The problem with the NFL challenge system is that the refs blow far more calls than the number of challenges allow. Take the college system, put it in the NFL where you do have much better refs, and I think it works fine. Challenges are fun because we can laugh at how badly they're used, but I'd rather they get the game right.

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