The problems with refereeing in football have less to do with the quality of the refs and more with the sport itself. They have situations where they have to look through a swarm of bodies for three or more different things at the same time (for example, knee on ground, ball location, receiver possession). They don't have audio cues to assist on play calling the way umps call plays at 1st base (at least not that I know of). Spotting balls accurately is impossible. Fouls are based on timing and location of a hit, not necessarily on the end result of the hit. The sport has some overly complicated, nonsensical rules due to its origins and the high level of contact, etc. Just have to deal with it IMO.

rivermannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Ban the refs union. Open a refs training camp just like the players. Cut the refs who don't measure up. Fire the worst refs of the previous season.

sounds like you're going to get a ton of people applying for this.

I think a lot of the disdain around here towards NFL officials comes from ignorance of the rules. See: Calvin Johnson type catches

I think the refs are okay, but the time delays on reviews is bad - and seems to be getting worse.

What do most NFL Refs do full time? Lawlers?

All reffing conversations are basically

1- yes technology
2- no ego
3- better accountability when 2 gets in the way of 1

Humans can't be prefect and the biggest problem is that refs/umps don't want to admit that, and thus the systems put in place to assist them don't get used optimally because nobody can admit that it's ****ing hard to call balls and strikes or PI or whatever.

I don't know if you see as much runaway ego in the NFL as you do in baseball, but I would suspect it's still problematic.

I actually know the head of the NFL refs, Carl Johnson, personally. He was a line judge for a while and was promoted after last season IIRC. While he was reffing, he worked for Coca-Cola running a warehouse in Thibodaux, LA.

IMO, forcing them to keep a full time job is pretty pointless. I think they make like $10K a game.

think calling opi on roddy whites gw td would be way way worse than not calling it. It was 1 hand light push, that type of jostling goes on every play

My problem is that the rules for things like roughing the passer and pass interference are very vague. Here is what constitutes defensive pass interference according to the rulebook:

B through F are fine. They outline specific matters that define pass interference. But part A is vague. It basically gives the green light to use even the slightest contact as grounds for pass interference. That's where the questionable calls come in.

If you look at the rules, you see a lot of incidental and inadvertent judgments being included. That's where refs screw up.

Here's another instance with roughing the passer

How can the referee correctly determine that? The only person who knows if he had the ability to stop is the player himself. Again, more subjective judgment.

What about possession. This is the definition in the NFL rulebook.

Does Calvin Johnson have complete control of the ball during the catching process according to the rules?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArDyByR5GVA

He controlled the ball throughout the process of catching and had both feet in the field of play in the end zone. The play should immediately be stopped right there. The catching process is finished when those feet touch. It is a very clear and obvious touchdown. The roll afterward should be considered equal to spiking the ball after the catch. That was an outright blown call.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The relevant rule is:

The key phrase being "he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground." The play isn't over once he gets two feet in. The play is over when the referee determines the act of the catch is done. In Calvin Johnson's case, they determined the act wasn't completed yet. You can agree with that subjective claim (I'm a Lions fan and agree with the ref's view), but it wasn't some egregious error. Most people who understand the rule agree that it was the correct call albeit a ****** one.

if calvin gets jacked by the db and the ball goes flying its a td. if he takes 3 steps and trips on his feet and the ball is dislodged its incomplete. its a joke.

also lol at ignorant of the rules. the nfl was ignorant of their own rules prior to this season bc ive never seen those plays incomplete before.

The rule is dumb, I agree. But that has nothing to do with the enforcement of it. You have an issue with the rule itself. That's a problem with the NFL administration, not the officials.

This is just completely wrong. See the link below from Louis Murphy's 2009 no-catch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7QwZCIwMyc

anyway, the best way to have better reffing is to get a bunch of camera angles and a bunch of refs in the booth that follow specific matchups and then buzz if theres a penalty.

The act of the catch is done when a player has full possession of the ball and has legally touched both feet or another part of the body that is not the hands in bounds without losing possession of the ball. Since that player is in the end zone, play stops right there as the ball has broken the plane in the possession of an offensive player.

Now if the player was diving for the ball, caught it and then hit the ground and the ball popped, it is incomplete. But that didn't happen. Megatron landed with the ball in complete control. That is completed, period.

It's a ******** call.

The Arian Foster call was honestly worse. Have people just not seen it? It was a total travesty that defied all logic.

He was pretty clearly going to the ground. That brings in the rule that I stated above which makes it incomplete. It's ******, but that's the rule.

He did go to the ground with possession and maintained that possession. He rolled up after he landed as a result of completing the play and the released the ball because of that.

It's ****ing stupid. I feel sad for the Lions because they have a drastically improved team compared to a couple of years ago and they seem to get ****ed at every angle possible.

The bolded is where the disagreement lies. I don't think he released it on purpose and that's how the ref interpreted it as well. If the ref thought Calvin had just placed the ball on the ground purposely, he would have ruled it a touchdown. Either way, it's not as clear cut as you and everyone make it out ot be.

You realize I'm a Lions fan, right?

Doesn't change the fact that the Lions are imo running pretty piss poor this season.

I disagree.

It was like Katrina on a football field.

As some have stated it happens in basketball. I can confirm that it's worse in hockey. And there were baseball playoff games decided by it too.

Imho this thread should be called "eliminate human error". That's basically what you're asking for.