Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? - Page 47 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

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Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe?

View Poll Results: Who will end up as the GOAT

Roger Federer

374 68.12%

Rafa Nadal

96 17.49%

Novak Djokovic

62 11.29%

Andy Murray

6 1.09%

Pete Sampras

2 0.36%

Roy Emerson

0 0%

Bjorn Borg

2 0.36%

Roder Laver

2 0.36%

John McEnroe

3 0.55%

Bill Tilden

2 0.36%

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07-10-2016 , 01:34 PM

#1151

BAIDS

2013 FA Cup winner

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 32,645

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT

lol, a peak of 7 years? Really?

His actual peak was probably somewhere between 07 and 09.

fed enjoys goat status because he was able to dominate for such a long time, and thus establish an abnormally prolonged peak

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07-10-2016 , 01:37 PM

#1152

mrno1324

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 3,055

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAIDS

fed enjoys goat status because he was able to dominate for such a long time, and thus establish an abnormally prolonged peak

Ah yes. The GOAT who consistently got trashed by his greatest rival during the course of both their careers. Losing 23-11 overall and 9-2 in GS matches. Epic GOAT stats.

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07-10-2016 , 01:41 PM

#1153

GusJohnsonGOAT

SESwamiGOAT

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 15,876

I mean, it is definitely impressive that he has been this good for this long, and probably since he was so good is why he can still compete. Regardless, criticizing Djokovic for his recent loss and then ignoring Fed's losses/failures is disingenuous.

But this is SE after all. Gotta go hard or go home.

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07-10-2016 , 01:47 PM

#1154

BAIDS

2013 FA Cup winner

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 32,645

if in 4 years djok loses to to a rando idiot in an early round it wont be as punishing to his reputation as this one was, because he'll be an old man past his peak at that point

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07-10-2016 , 01:51 PM

#1155

kingweed

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 46,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT

I mean, it is definitely impressive that he has been this good for this long, and probably since he was so good is why he can still compete.

Bingo.

He's #3 in the world.

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07-10-2016 , 09:55 PM

#1156

TheHip41

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enrique

It's not evident that Djokovic has had a better career than Nadal so far. 14 slams for Nadal, 12 for Djokovic. Also pretty even on the H2H. I do expect Djokovic to finish with more slams than Nadal though, so this will be mute soon.

Novak has had three seasons better than an nadal season

He's been #1 longer

He held all majors at one time

More masters 1000s wins

Better H2H

I'm not saying it's a landslide, but Novak has better career numbers right now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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07-10-2016 , 10:13 PM

#1157

GeoffRas22

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Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 40,161

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyramidScheme

Reading some backposts...

Nadal's H2H record against Federer was one of the dumbest GOAT arguments of all time.

Like half the matches are on clay because Nadal sucked to much to get to hardcourt finals and lose to Roger

This argument is basically invalid now. From 2010-2013 Fed made 3/16 GS finals while Nadal made 10/16. They only played once. Nadal would have been favored on any surface during that stretch but Roger wasn't good enough to make those finals.

Basically, Nadal failing to reach finals on hard/grass from '05-'08 was more than made up for by Fed's inability to make any finals from '10-'13.

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07-10-2016 , 10:17 PM

#1158

GeoffRas22

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Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 40,161

Also something to think about

11 of Nadal's 14 GS finals wins have been against Novak or Federer. He's 11-5 vs those two in finals. He basically never got to win without playing one of the three best players ever. Fed otoh, has won 3 of his 17 GS's vs Nadal or Djokovic & is 3-9 vs those two in finals. LOL at thinking he didn't benefit from being 5 years older than those two and fading facing either of them for a few years in any GS.

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07-11-2016 , 02:52 AM

#1159

kingweed

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 46,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffRas22

Mean it's a good point but by the age of 22 Nadal had 5 slams, Roger had 1.

Between 23-26 Roger won 11, whereas Rafa won 6.

They both come through at the same age, they both win just as much IMO. Rafa starts earlier then fades, Fed starts later.

It was only at the age of 27 when they both had similar careers, Fed 13 slams, Rafa 13 slams.

Roger had a load more weeks at #1 and tour end finals, Rafa had more ATP1000 events.

Same with Novak 1 slam aged 23, didn't get going until 24.

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07-11-2016 , 03:03 AM

#1160

GeoffRas22

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When Roger was 25 he was battling Andy Roddick while Rafa, 20-21 at the time, was just comin on the scene. When Rafa was 25 Novak & Murray were firmly in their primes and Federer was still doin his thing.

Obviously it was harder for Nadal to win majors during his physical peak (23-26) than Federer...come on now

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07-11-2016 , 11:49 AM

#1161

dnh83

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,647

screw the haters saying Rog didn't have good competition

if he wasn't around, then Roddick, Hewitt, and Fernando Gonzalez would be considered GOATs

you're still the one Rog

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07-11-2016 , 12:37 PM

#1162

iversonian

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,441

Safin too. And maybe Sampras binks another wimby at the end of his career.

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07-11-2016 , 01:49 PM

#1163

DisGunBGud

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 23,708

I'm more curious where some of you think peak Roddick would be ranked in today's game...

This will answer a lot.

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07-11-2016 , 02:00 PM

#1164

kingweed

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 46,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisGunBGud

I'm more curious where some of you think peak Roddick would be ranked in today's game...

This will answer a lot.

Good on grass, piss poor on clay. Decent on hard court.

Would make deep runs in Wimbledon I guess.

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07-11-2016 , 02:17 PM

#1165

Carnivore

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,280

So a question to the Fed haters.

Would 34 year old Fed have been the number 2 player in the world from 03-07 until Nadal showed up?

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07-11-2016 , 02:24 PM

#1166

Kneel B4 Zod

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highest peak:

Djoker > Rafa > Fed

best career (projection):

Fed > Djoker > Rafa

Djoker has a decent chance to pass Fed in terms of career. I doubt he stays top 5 for as long as Fed has, but I think he'll end up with more rangz b/c he's gonna gobble up a bunch in the next 2 or 3 seasons and then slow down, but still has a decent chance of hitting 18 or 19

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07-11-2016 , 02:27 PM

#1167

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,134

lol top 5

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07-11-2016 , 02:28 PM

#1168

Kneel B4 Zod

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 27,952

?

will Djoker still be Top 5 five years from now? good chance physically he just can't make it. and Fed is still #3

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07-11-2016 , 04:09 PM

#1169

DisGunBGud

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 23,708

Djokovic reminds me a bit of LaDainian Tomlinson during his peak. Everyone thinks Novak is going to break Fed's record, well a good chunk at least. The same way a lot (including myself) felt about LT2 breaking Emmitt's rushing title record. Now I'm not saying Novak is going to fall off the way LT2 did but we have to take into account Fed's longevity here. People his age are not supposed to be on his current level even if it's light years away from his once peak form. Let's not start handing out crowns to the ones trying to take the throne until they get to show their full body of work in their latter years.

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07-11-2016 , 04:15 PM

#1170

rtd353

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 3,897

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kneel B4 Zod

I would take the under on 18 or 19, the fallout for great players happens really really fast. Look at nadal. Look at tiger. Federer is an exception. I agree with your peak rankings.

Quote

07-11-2016 , 04:38 PM

#1171

mrno1324

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 3,055

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisGunBGud

Let's just wait and see. I'm pretty sure Novak's diet, exercise regimen and mentality are all superior to Fed's. It's not like Fed is some alien with extra regenerative abilities or a slower aging process.

Quote

07-11-2016 , 05:39 PM

#1172

Carnivore

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Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,280

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtd353

I would take the under on 18 or 19, the fallout for great players happens really really fast. Look at nadal. Look at tiger. Federer is an exception. I agree with your peak rankings.

To some extent, this even applies to Federer and shows how hard it is to win a slam.

Fed has only won 1 slam since 2010 despite pretty much remaining always a top 4 player during the 6 years since.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Novak doesn't even pass Nadal and ends up with about 14. He's 29 and just lost in the 3rd round of wimbledon. I'd be surprised if he gets past 15 slams. It's entirely possible for him to just finish with the 12 he has.

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07-11-2016 , 06:36 PM

#1173

Synchronic

banned

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 866

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kneel B4 Zod

I like this take. I think I would have to have Fed second for peak, as Rafa's is so heavily on specialty surface almost obsolete otherwise. His dominance of French is nothing short of awesome, but in trying to think of acomparison, I wonder about a PGA player ruling in match play but way down the list of all-time greats otherwise. I don't know.

I agree with the rest of your rankings. I'm also suspicious of Djoker falling from glory rapidly ... not dominating next few years at all. Only time will tell. I think he's Tyson, not Federer. We'll see if he can stay on course.

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07-12-2016 , 01:09 AM

#1174

TheHip41

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Any thoughts on nadal being on roids (or whatever it's call now)

It sure looks that way. Just fell off a cliff a few years ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

07-12-2016 , 05:19 AM

#1175

Yeti

Abominable

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffRas22

Fed otoh, has won 3 of his 17 GS's vs Nadal or Djokovic & is 3-9 vs those two in finals. LOL at thinking he didn't benefit from being 5 years older than those two and fading facing either of them for a few years in any GS.

plz go look up how many of federer's GSs were won while nadal was #2 or better in the world. actually, i'll save you the trouble. from july 2005 to august 2009, nadal was at minimum #2 in the world, and #1 for the back stretch.

a reminder of their results during that period:

i'll assume you're able to tell whose is whose. so yeah, it's hardly roger's fault that nadal couldn't make finals (or even semi-finals), but do feel free to keep up the narrative of federer beating tons of clowns while rafa was just a young scrub on the tour.

Last edited by Yeti; 07-12-2016 at 05:27 AM.

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