That's the whole point. The clearcut head and shoulders GOAT was suddenly being powned in generally close matches. It was Superman and cryptonite ... and that is drama if there is any such thing as drama.

It would be exactly as if someone came along and owned Jordan when he was at his peak, or owned Tiger when he was at his peak. Jaw dropping stuff.

This applies a lot to Maradona vs Messi and especially in Argentina. Messi will never have the ''aura''. Same with Jordan vs Lebron, I would guess.

Personally, I like Djoko more than the others, there is something unique about him, he isn't scared to be himself or say what he thinks. Calling out the women on their bs equal pay while playing at male paralympic levels and bringing in a fraction of the income is a good example. Too bad he apologized for it but I guess even he has to live on planet PC.

People prefer kindly deceitful over bluntly honest sadly.

Plus no one ever liked Vak even when he was an underdog.

Federer is the best tennis player ever! no one could play like him, his technique is unique

Sure, but the fraction of matches a player plays indoors is typically 10-20%. Federer/Nadal matches ran right around expectation for indoor vs outdoor split. This is like saying "if 75% of grand slams were on clay, Nadal would be far and away the most decorated player ever." Yeah, sure, its probably true, but we dont live in that world.

But we live in a world where their massive clay encounters skew the numbers. It's one of the greatest rivalries in sports regardless of anything else as far as I'm concerned. Their contrasting styles made for a great dynamic.

I dont disagree, this needs to be taken into account, but equally weighted indoor and outdoor performance isnt the way to do it.

How about that they only have 3 grass matches, grass >>> clay as a surface but there are no tournaments

If Fed ships this Wimbledon this thread should be closed.

For some reason I keep picturing prahlad friedman saying this

Po-ker is fun for e-very-one...

Not really, in Argie land they love him because he played for an argie team and lead the team win victory in the World Cup after all the wars and what not. So it was celebrated a lot more. Plus the whole nonsense of because he left at a young age. Even if messi did win the World Cup 2 years ago - lol higuin - he may not even have been held as high either! Despite being the actual goat.

This too because of his attitude on the court. Remember when he use to do impressions to try and gain some fans.

I think so too. Kind of hope he wins gold at Rio too!

Shame he didn't win a double career slam as well. Doubt Rafa gets that now. Novak got a great chance with the FO next year.

fed getting washed

lol wanters

ouch

Fed prob gonna come back now Rata

rat you silly sausage

u were gifted the pleasure of witnessing goat messi and goat fed, and u managed to make the whole thing a thoroughly miserable experience for yourself

Exactly.

We've seen Messi v Ronaldo. Roger v Rafa. Woods then his melt down.

Think Rat is Canadian, poor bloke doesn't know anything different.

Jesus, even as a Scot I feel sorry for Canadians

I think Nadal may actually have been the GOAT for pure peak, but not for long enough due to injuries.

Nadal is actually the only reason this debate exists. Without him, Federer wins about 26 slams and the sport and all of its slams are renamed after him.

Is Goat bad here? or Good?

You could say the same thing about Novak though.

Rafa would have went on to win a few more slams too.

Roger would have had 2 more wimbeldons as well.

lol Fed!

I'll second most of that. Fed was one man from having 25-ish. And it was so uncanny that cryptonite showed up.

An elder friend who is a tennis player compared Fed to Joe DiMaggio, which hit me as very apt. "He just floats around out there making it look effortless while playing at a level no one else is at," she said. Joe D gave that exact impression, as did Federer.

I get the point about Nadal maybe peaking higher, but I can't quite go there. He had the answer to Fed for a while, he had the answer to clay obviously, but in terms of all-around greatness I see him as more of a specialist/Agassi combo. If the slams were weighted somehow to demand all-around greatness, I don't think Nadal could compete for the top spot. But I loved him and his game and appearance on the scene was sick as hell.

And you know, I don't even know where Raf rates on the all-time wins list, and match and tournament win % etc for all tournaments. That counts too on greatness. Gonna look it up.

But it was one of the most dramatic things ever in sports when all of a sudden Super-Duper-man had a major problem.