My bad, I was referencing Sampras' volleying skills as those today's players aren't used to seeing as much.

I do think Sampras' serve was the GOAT serve and was marginally better than today's best.

Pete had great spin, pace, and placement on his serve no doubt. His serve might be only 115mph but it had so much kick. He was also a master of the mind games as to where his serve would come.

It'll be interesting to see how average aces per match has been trending in the last 20 years.

I think you're missing something as far as how physically demanding top level tennis is.

Have a look at the chart of grand slam winning ages again. The top years are 21-26, 27-30 people still can and do win but the dropoff is definitely there.

The fact that tennis IS so physically demanding is THE reason for this.

Of course if you think the chart is just variance, well I guess you're free to think that but your theory is dubious at best IMO.

A BBall game is 48 minutes, lots of breaks, usually you don't play all those minutes etc. there are other reasons as well that support the argument that tennis is more physically demanding. Did you watch the US Open final? If you did I have no idea how you could not understand this.

I'm not sure that Sampras' greatest strength was his serve and volley game. I still feel watching all those battles he had with other great serve and volley players such as Goran or Mark Phillipousis, his greatest ability is being able to make the most ridiculous passing shots.

You can certainly make an argument that Sampras' running forehand was his best shot.

Who is the best returner? Agassi? Prime Fed? Djokovic?

Edit: Don't see the US open thread on the first page so I'll just post it here: Djokovic is incredibly good. He's got the best return and the best baseline game in today's game ainec. His serve is very good and his endurance/durability has become as good if not better than Nadal's. Don't see anyone beating a healthy Djokovic for quite some time.

I do think it would be fun to see guys like Agassi or even Michael Chang play with today's equipment. I think there would be some epic rallies.

Agassi might be the best Serve returner I have seen but I'm not sure that is the same as best baseliner.

Tier 1
Agassi
Conners

Tier 2
Fed
Chang
Hewitt
Nalbandian

Hon Men: Djok, Mac, Borg

cvig trolling, no way somebody who plays/played tennis and basketball with any regularaity would think basketball is more demanding than a 5 setter against top competition

Also, why does anybody respond to jetto anymore?

I was in the Nadal camp last year. This year Nadal has played great but was eclipsed by Djokovic. Federer clearly out of his prime is a contender on any grand slam. This year has changed me to support Fed for GOAT.

I think tdarko's recent comments in the thread are spot on.

A 48 minute basketball game still has more significant injury risk, that's why.

Tennis on average is obviously more exhausting and demanding.

Tier 1 is spot on IMO. When I saw the first post on the subject, I was like how can there be a list without Connors on it?

And it is spelt Connors.

/nit

vain,

necessary nit, my bad.

Injury risk has nothing to do with the fact that 27 is well, if not old exactly, then old enough to be past peak for tennis players in most cases.

Also I think it's fair to say that while a tennis match is not a high injury risk, the cumulative toll long tennis matches take on the body has probably much to do with the fact that 27 is generally past peak for tennis players, whereas 27 is pretty much peak for basketball (and baseball, football, hockey ...).

lack of understanding chronic and acute injury itt.

The other reason for the earlier peak age of Tennis is that strategy wise, I'm not sure there is that much to be learned between the ages of 24 and say 27.

Watching different styles definitely adds something IMO. Specifically, watching Mcenroe vs. Borg was fascinating, the matches when Borg won his 5th Wim title and the next year when Mcenroe finally stopped his run there were the most exciting matches I ever saw. And Connors and Lendl had their own style as well, that was probably the most entertaining era for mens tennis.

Yeah I'm old, sigh.

If tennis had more strategy/gameplanning where the underdog/less skilled player can win more it would be a GOAT sport. Still love the game.

ut2010 makes a fair point (even thought I disagree theoretically) There's a ton of people who would find tennis more entertaining if it was less predictable.

You don't have to be a dick just for the sake of it

Also, plenty of understanding of chronic/acute injuries

There's a much more serious chance of one basketball game permanently injuring yourself than one tennis match as well as the effects of a season, and that factors in to 'physical demands'

Tennis players often start very young. Basketball players on average start much later at a very physical level (NBA) and still suffer both very bad acute and chronic injury problems

lol at djokavic being an "honorary mention" when mcenroe said he's far and away the best he's seen

you guys are trying too hard to not be lolrecencybias

Mcenroe is no tdarko tho, he was a pro athlete too yanno

I wish DFW was around to write more about tennis.

His article on Roger Federer, during his peak, in case anyone hasn't read it.

c-vig,

I didn't think it was a fair point. There is a ton of strategy and game planning, top flight players even spend years adjusting their game/weakness to game plan for a potential match against an opponent. Underdogs do win, we just aren't seeing it much now b/c it is 3 players on a completely different level than the rest of the world. Tennis is very top heavy right now.