Awesome that this gets to be a debate, matches between these three are my fav sporting matches (with nhl playoffs). Tough to go against Fed. But when Vak is on he just seems to lazer the balls near the lines like no one. And back-hand no problem, where Fed has not been as strong. Hmm yea guess its Fed for know comfortably, but who knows in a couple of years.

Fed 20
Raf 20
Vak 20

Let it happen.

If that happened, the GOAT would clearly be Fed or Vak.

Federer is the GOAT because he inspired David Foster Wallace to write an essay about him.



My opinion is that Federer won't be surpassed in the GOAT rankings even if Djokovic or Nadal surpass him in slams, unless they also get their own essay from David Foster Wallace.

That's a good point. And with his death, it's unlikely any additional DFW essays come forth.

...Unless someone finds some long last ones in an attic somewhere.

Federer is almost certainly as doped as any pro athlete ever. His longevity is part of the proof.

My memory is that the peak Elo goes Djokovic, Borg, Mcnroe, Nadal, Federer.

According to the 538 charted posted a few pages back, Borg, Federer, and Djokovic were the only above 2500, all about the same. That was pre AO, so Djok should have the highest OAT now.

So basically a one-surface wonder.

Yes because he's only won 70 titles or something on other surfaces.

83*

Won his 102 career title today.

Rafa has won 59 clay court titles.

109 the record.

Still a loser all time head to head with Nadal.

There always weird match ups. Rafas game is perfect counter to Rogers.

Just appreciate both. What an era we are in.

Federer is undoubtedly the GOAT after winning the Fever Tree Championship men's doubles with a metal hip. Oh wait, Federer has never won the Fever Tree Championship men's doubles with a metal hip.

Real GOAT:

Really hard to be the greatest of all time and yet have losing records against the other potential greatest of all times. Just one mans opinion

ya but he just beat john millman and pierre-hugues herbert to win a title

eh?

well...
I guess when u have the supposed goat still way pass his prime and still, not just being able to compete and beat the best players today, but beat the considered goat's after him, even in their prime while federer wasnt, must have some kind of value no ...?

Federer has push the limit of age by a big margin at this level of play, is just incredebile.

obv. age is not the only factor but when u still beat the best thats insane.

I dont get your reply but i must not be well versed enough in this thread to get the inside humor

Edit - to partygrill

There’s so much more to being considered the GOAT rather than a head to head record due to a number of factors such as age and match up

There probably a few weird and wonderful h2h records throughout the years.

More important factors are titles won, titles on different surfaces, winning everything you can, being number one, consultancy and longevity etc etc

For me they have more weight than peak unless peak is sustained over a significant period of time. As there’s always a player who’ll pop up for a week or so and just be unbeatable and the narrative will be if he plays like this every match he’s winning everything.

Under normal circumstances, Federer would have retired somewhere around 31 in 2012, give or take a year. Obviously there have been outliers - Agassi winning a slam at 33 or Connors being a competitive pro at 40. But Federer still getting to grand slam semis on his worst surface at 37 makes comparisons extremely difficult.

If Nadal and Djokovic can ultimately demonstrate the same longevity over the next five years then the conversation will become easier.

Maybe Sampras retired way too early?

His last match was beating Agassi in the US Open final, so yeah - he could have continued on. But nobody really did at that time. Here are some notable players I can think of retiring around that period:

- Becker managed his last full season at 29. His age 30 season in 1998 he missed swathes of the season and in 1999 at 31he really only played grass court season
- Edberg retired at 30
- Courier 29
- Chang 31
- Goran 32
- Rafter 28
- Brugrera 30

Most of them had stopped being elite, but Rafter reached a Grand slam final and semi final the year he quit; and Edberg was still advancing in Slams, finishing up with a QF appearance at the US.

Back in 2001, when 19 year old Federer was beating Sampras on centre court and 28 year old Pat Rafter was playing his last season as a pro, the idea of a top 5 player continuing on into his mid thirties at that level would have been laughed at. It would have been a ridiculous notion. Sure, playing on as a solid pro was a possibility but Federer managing what he has done would have been out of the realm of imagination at that time. Nadal and Djokovic are already pushing beyond what would have been the expected career window. Federer has shattered it.

So what's changed? I think we all have some ideas beyond simple desire and better nutrition...

I think he did. I think a lot of people retire too early. And it makes a little sense - a lot of these guys are used to being the best / in contention to win every tournament / a top player, so losing a little bit and having some people being consensus better is a huge ego blow.

If Sampras hung around he could've won another slam. For sure. Same could be said of many other greats who hung it up prematurely. But many athletes who were at the top like walking away on their own volition rather than being told they simply aren't good enough. Grandfather time remains unbeaten.