ugh. was hoping MVP would fall. Was trying to talk wers into picking him up.

A bit surprised he fell this far. Great value, imo.

love 2 cold scorpio... he was always a IC/US contender in my TNM feds.

Pick #191:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZyMg...eature=related



Roster so far:

Stone Cold Steve Austin
Brock Lesnar
AJ Styles
Lance Storm
Arn Anderson
Mr. Kennedy
Sable
Masato Tanaka
Amazing Red
Jimmy Hart

192:



193:

SC was boss in ECW.

I was speaking in generalities about vince irt dumbass gimmicks, but if you really want me to break down your roster sure:

'Taker: a quality wrestler who was given an over the top gimmick and made it his own over time. Has been able to adapt and adjust his gimmick and style to the vanguard of the time to consistently keep himself fresh and viable over a long career at the top of the card

Ultimate Warrior: an absolute donk who was given a big gimmick that vince force fed down people's throats. Had a decent reign as champ, but outside of when Hogan put him over, there was absolutely nothing about his reign that was memorable, and he was a gawd awful wrestler and couldn't cut a promo to save his life. He is a Vince specialty that had a hot run leading into his title win, and then did jack **** after getting the big push. Many wrestlers would've been able to run with Vince's push much better, but to be honest, he was an abject failure as he no-showed a lot of matches and was complete crap in the ring in successive returns which lead to one of the worst matches of the decade against hogan in 98. Simply put, he blows

Sgt. Slaughter: a excellent brawler who had success in the AWA before jumping to the WWF. Had a decent run with Vince playing up the Iraqi angle, but it didn't have any legs, and Slaughter didn't have the working ability to carry it further then it went. Was decent on the mic, but was always more of a mid-card guy who had a short good run in the WWF, but didn't have the ability to sustain it

William/Steven Regal: A great worker who is a heel's heel on the mic. But, the problem with him is that the other wrestlers will not even come close to complimenting him and allow him to really show off what he can do. TBH, he's a complete waste of a pick here with this fed

Paul Orndorff: A quality heel who could work a bigger style and drew good money with Hogan towards the begining of Hogan's 4 year run with the title. A serious neck injury hurt him badly, but when he was on, he could work a solid style. Never a great worker, but nowhere near Ultimate Warrior levels of awful. More then anything, he knew how to get over as a heel and did a good job of making a face look good. Not sure how he would work with the other picks though as he was basically a mid-card guy for the rest of his career and before his run with hogan in 85-86

Val Venis: a very good worker and solid on the mic. He was never really given a full run with it to show off what he can do. Is getting a good run in mexico now, but never seemed to be given a good push to really see what he is/was capable of. I can see him having good matches against 'Taker and Regal, but since he'd be on the heel side with them more often then not, it presents problems with allowing him to show what he can do

Jesse James: had a couple of fun catch phrases and that's about it. WHether thinner or fat, he wrestlers a unnatractive brawling style, and quite frankly nobody ever really cared about him. A good tag wrestler, he was given a push because he made friends with the right guy, and hasn't done squat since

Tommy Dreamer: solid undercard and mid-card face. Can get the fans into his match with his charisma, but never really had the ability to get himself into the next level. I've always been a fan and he's a solid pick, but his style of wrestling just doesn't mesh at all with the other wrestlers in the fed

Umaga: I've generally liked how Eddie Fatu has wrestled. A good mid-card guy who has something to offer, but is more on the heel side and doesn't really have the ability to go between face and heel. Again, not sure how he'd be able to work with the other guys in the Fed as he wrestles a big man style that relies on squashing guys


Basically this is a very loose fed of guys who don't really compliment each other. Taker can work a lot of styles, so that will help, but after that, you are loaded with guys who either can't work to save their lives, can't really talk on the mic, both scenarios, or are guys who have been low mid to undercard guys their entire careers.

Again, no rhyme or real reason to the general style of how the fed will be as its just a bunch of guys that you marked out for. While not flying rat bad, this is a fed that can't take advantage of guys strengths and really exposes their weaknesses, which to me doesn't equate to a good federation. I'm not saying that every guy has to be a smark legend, but there has to be a solid mix of guys to make a successful federation. To me this is a federation that few would actually care about. One can trot out that Warrior sold t-shirts to kids and such, but it was a very short period in which he "drew" and he only drew because of some very big guys willingly putting him over

That's some really cool possible matches you have there, SR. I'm not sure if I like the way you build around The Rock though.

Yeah, I'll admit that I probably didn't build around The Rock ideally, but I think he's basically a chameleon that would be amazing in any style of promotion. I think his mic skills and ability to put guys over will be insanely valuable and he's always going to be a huge draw.

sarcastic rat: love the super crazy pick. He really compliments your other wrestlers, and it looks like you really have a good jrs division going, so at worst, you'll have some very entertaining matches


detlef: really like the general balance of your 4 picks. Tanaka is always a ton of fun to watch and is great in a mid-card role and can easily hold a secondary title if you choose to have one. Red is great, and I'm uber glad that he's finally gotten healed up from his leg injuries that plauged him a few years back and were threatening him having a short career. He can wrestle a lot of different jr styles, and the versitility will help in your fed

And my board just keeps shrinking (Haas).

Thanks dawg.

Holy overnight pick run

<3 Mickie James. Think after Trish she was the best available woman who can wrestle

Generally I think all the picks since Torrie have been good value

A lot of what you say is just plain wrong.

The Ultimate Warrior was not "forced fed down people's throats". That's absurd revisionist history. The Warrior got himself over with his performances. The Warrior's push wasn't significant at all before he won the Intercontinental title at SummerSlamm '88, yet he was over massively. Once he beat the Honky Tonk Man, he surged in popularity and that's when the hard push started- a push which had huge support from the fans.


You simply don't know what you're talking about here. You completely ignored the best parts of his career- everything before his last AWA run.

Slaughter was a big draw as a heel in both Jim Crockett Promotions and the WWF prior to 1984. In JCP, he was the top heel for nearly two years, holding the U.S. title and the world tag team titles. He had a mini-stable built around him. In the WWF, he had main event runs with Bob Backlund twice.

As a face in the WWF, Slaughter was massively over in 1984. His popularity was only surpassed by Hogan himself.


Orndorff was an excellent worker. Why would you consider saying he wasn't? He wasn't a mid-card guy before his big feud with Hogan in 1986. Orndorff was a top heel (and sometimes top face) in several places before he arrived in the WWF in 1984. When he got to the WWF, he was main eventing house shows right away (very unusual) and eventually main-evented the first WrestleMania.

I can't believe two of the greatest heels ever haven't been taken.

Re Warrior: He wasn't exactly over in either Dallas or Mid-South before vince grabbed him, again, Vince creation that Vince willed to do business. I would also say, that having as short of a reign as he had is a significant problem given the push he recieved as Vince would've expected him to run with the belt for several years. Previous long term champions were given the belt for almost a year to more, He had it for eight months, and didn't recieve that big of a push again. Considering what was planned for him, and what actually happened paints a not so good picture. THis is a guy that had multiple reigns planned out as Vince and Co. wrote out the main stories well in advance


Slaughter: I focused on his second run in the WWF because that was what NC was citing for Slaughter. I know that Slaughter had success in both the AWA and Carolina in the 70s. He was generally in the high-mid card before he got a big push again in the AWA in the late 80s. He left the WWF before he could get that final big push from Vince in the mid-80s

Orndorff: I didn't say he was a bad worker, he was a solid worker, that's not a knock. IMO there are few great workers, for me guys that are great workers are guys like Race, Flair, etc. WHere did I say that Orndorff was a bad worker. His neck injury and the decline in his career plays into our drafting and can't be pushed aside. I also said that he was a good heel and knew how to get the face over, what is wrong with that statement?

I've never heard anything about Warrior's long term plans, can you elaborate?

And Slaughter was fired in the mid-80's from the WWF due to him having his own GI Joe toy.

Warrior was basically being groomed to be the main guy from about 90-95/96 and do what Hogan did in the 80s, which obviously didn't happen. One can look to the run of heels that held the belt for decent amounts of time to see that Vince at the time was trying to figure out a new strategy. The WWF had traditionally been a strong face Fed with the biggest Faces holding the HW Title

Slaughter left the WWF because Vince didn't want him to do the GI Joe toys, which of course would've created problems with Hogan had Slaughter been in the WWF while having the action figures sell big

I don't think a long Warrior run would have worked even if he wasn't crazy/no showing/getting gassed pre-bell, TV was getting to be important at that time and 5 years runs just aren't good in the modern era.

Bret Hart's book says he was fired, that's my only source I have atm

TV had been important for a while. When they moved to more monthly PPVs is where the major changes happened. At that time, doing good business on house shows was extremely important and was the main focus as they only had 4 PPVs a year and the PPV business hadn't yet fully caught on yet(but was becoming more important)

Yeah, there are WAY too many PPVs these days. Might be good for business (in fact I'm sure it is, otherwise there wouldn't be so many), but I miss the days storylines would unfold over an entire year rather than in four weeks.

having this many PPVs is a genie that can't be put back in the bottle. THere's definitely too many, and for me, I think it'd be better if they were every 6 weeks or so to space things out a bit.

definitely agree with wanting longer storylines. To me it seems that many storylines are done way too fast and it doesn't really allow for the fans to grow into the storylines and really get their emotions going and get wrapped up in the storylines.

+10000000000

This is why the WWF in the early 90s with only 4 PPVs was so great.

Even the King of the Ring addition in 1993 was great. Five a year, all of them with their own theme, awesome. Then they added In Your House events and it all went downhill.

Also, I miss the "Clash of the Champions" days on TBS. Felt like a PPV but was free. Those rocked.

The addition of too many PPVs was definitely the downfall of pro wrestling.

In terms of the draft, I think people are putting a little too much emphasis on guys complementing each other. Good booking and promotion is what makes guys "go together" well. I'm sure no one here would have put Scott Hall and Sean Waltman together as great fits, yet their rivalry when Waltman was the 1-2-3 Kid was great.

I think you want a good mix of faces and heels, mic guys and ring guys. Focusing too much on wrestling styles isn't as important, I don't think. It just hasn't been as important historically.