Quote:
Originally Posted by derwipok
I love Pogacar.
Agreed x1000, he makes cycling a lot more fun.
Chapeau Jonas VingeGOAT, already the greatest Danish Cyclist of all time in my estimation, and could cement himself as one of cycling's greats if he continues.
This being cycling and Vingegaard being as dominant as he has been obviously leads to questions about doping which is in a sense natural considering the sports history.
I have swallowed the blue pill and I cannot get myself believe that Vingegaard is someone who would cheat.
The keyword here, though, is cheat. Because there's no doubt that virtually all cycling teams use drugs/prescription medication that have some beneficial effects for performance but which are not banned.
This is also reflected in the phrasing of Jumbo when discussing these issues. Vingegaard says he "doesn't take anything he wouldn't give his daughter" and that he uses "nothing illegal", while Grischa Niemann has basically said that they use nothing that improves performance which is illegal, making it pretty obvious they use everything they can which isn't banned by WADA.
I read an interesting article a few days ago about how some teams have used sclerosis medication because it might aid recovery, others have used opiods in combination with caffeine before nasty climbs to suppress pain (while counteracting the drowsiness), and Jumbo have been said to use baking powder. It's effectively an arms race and presumably each team have different knowledge and their own ideas about what is best (and considering how riders always seem to improve on Jumbo, they're probably good at it).
And yeah, natural development of the sport, equipment, knowledge about preparation, about diets and physiology also plays a big role obviously, when comparing across eras, although they are still not beating the mega dopers of the 90's, even with much better technology, training, diet etc.
Considering the rider's historical development is also important. In 2018, before joining Jumbo, Vingegaard had tests done by sports physiologists of the Danish state sporting organization, where his results were "extraordinary", performing 15% better in terms of heart and "pump" than the average professional Danish cyclists, leaving him in "a class of his own", an outlier among outliers.
There's also the fact that their competition is not the greatest. Whilst Vingo/Pogi would probably beat Froome he'd obviously be a lot closer to them than the current field of GC riders, which isn't very impressive.
Adam Yates, who was often sacrificing himself as a helper for Pogacar and who has never podiumed in any GT previously in 11 tries, Simon Yates who has done better historically but is not really an elite GC rider either imo. Rodriguez, only his 2nd GT ever and a Tour debutant, below him is Bilbao, never better than fifth in a GT, below him are Hindley, Gall, Gaudu, and Martin, and Hindley, the one who has impressed as a GC rider previously, was hurt after his crash.
The field below Pogacar and Vingegaard does not look very good. The best guys are getting too old (Roglic, Geraint Thomas) or are possibly super talented but possibly not there yet (Ayuso, Evenepoel), and Bernal, who's younger than Vingegaard, has never been the same after his crash. Evenepoel is the best bet but is still an unknown, because while he won the Vuelta comfortably, he also was dropped by guys like Mas in the third week, and if you lose 20 seconds to Mas, you lose minutes on the same climb to Vingo/Pogi. But he has improved a lot and I hope he'll be at the Tour next year.
Considering all circumstances, I don't think what they're doing is physiologically impossible if they're "clean* (especially if including the use of "legal" PEDs). But I'm no expert, so my guess is as good as anyone's, and I think it's good that their performances are scrutinized critically. But I also think that, while understandable considering cycling's past, it's the main talking point every time anyone does something extraordinary.