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Old 07-24-2015, 11:37 AM   #651
guivre1408
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

this too but at least it's understandable from Movistar POV, valverde never top 3 the tour 2 on podium that's a good tour for them if race is stalled
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:42 AM   #652
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

This is just waaaay too late
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:47 AM   #653
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Quintana would have won the stage if he had attacked earlier. Hope that teaches him a lesson
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:53 AM   #654
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Hope Quintana attacks earlier in the climb tomorrow now that he knows it's possible to gain some time on Froome.
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:03 PM   #655
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Yeah, this is turning into a rerun of 2013. Nice work from Nibali, wouldn't mind him grabbing the podium spot in the end. Not sure how much more Quintana could do there. Yes attacking a bit earlier would've been great but the climb has that not so good looking flat middle part in it so who knows. Valverde not following Nibali was the biggest sin imo. Not sure how he manages to be so passive in GTs considering how he rides one day races.

Really doubt Contador was defending anything with Majka leading the group. Probably just keeping up some tempo with the group otherwise slowing down completely. Poels hanging in there so long was pretty awesome but sort of showed that they were riding at a pace where the top guys could probably hide a pretty bad day.

Quintana needs a 4 week Tour. They should do an extra week through the Italian Alps.
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:09 PM   #656
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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Originally Posted by Cinarocket View Post
Quintana would have won the stage if he had attacked earlier. Hope that teaches him a lesson

Meh. With Valverde pretty dead on the last climb and Froome still with a teammate it would have been tough. The only way would have been to have one more Movistar to put much more intense pacemaking in the penultimate climb and get rid of that Poels dude. Sacrifice Valverde in the bottom of the last mountain and go out and out. Win the stage and put max pressure.

Hopefully tomorrow! (but likely to have G and Porte to help out until late)

Great stage though.
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:10 PM   #657
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Not sure that an earlier attack by Quintana would have won him the stage. He gambled that an attack at 5k would get him the most time back on Froome ,that's what matters most to him. Whether he could have gained more time when Froome wouldn't have been chasing alone we'll never know.

To be fair to Valverde, if Froome couldn't follow Quintana then who could have?

For all those who said this tour wouldn't be worth watching when Froome got the early lead - well, Nibali had other ideas. He can't win the tour but he hasn't given up - great stuff!
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:21 PM   #658
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

I don't see a good logical explanation for not attacking earlier.

First of all, I got the impression in la croix de fer Froome didn't look as good when he had his little bike incident, he should have been closing the gap faster than he did and just generally his pedaling frequency seemed to be lower. Could be misleading though but worth nothing he didn't look exactly dominant.

La Toussuire had his hardest % at the bottom and obviously when the road gets flatter it advantages Froome over Quintana, Quintana tried with 4km to go when % were between 4 and 7% but by attacking so near the arrival and with lower %ages you're kinda limiting the upside of the gamble you're taking.

Not that he could know it but Quintana gradually gained time over Froome. As soon as he made his small gap it was slow and steady but first he was 5 sec ahead and very gradually was 10sec 15sec 20sec and by the arrival the gap was 30sec. Just seems like Quintana was slightly stronger than Froome today and when the gap you gain is gradual like this it's good indication that you could project a similar linear pattern if he had attacked earlier. I don't think there's much Valverde or Poels consideration to be had. If anything the fact that Froome had Poels was a good thing, Poels is not a great climber by any means (when he was making the pace there were still a bunch of riders and he quickly dropped) who knows what he'll be able to do when tomorrow Porte and Thomas magically reappear and look like world beaters.

Ultimately, we're talking about a gamble here but when you're 3min behind the yellow jersey the gamble you should be aiming for is the higher upside one even at the cost of more risk. Race for the win etc... just not much to lose a lot to potentially gain. His 2nd place is as safe as it gets
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:30 PM   #659
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Well he's gained a psychological edge of sorts and can attack earlier tomorrow when he will have to go all out for it and risk the mother of all bonks that could even knock him off the podium. Quintana is the best climber in the world when it is steep but there are many, including a fair few in this tour, who are better over a longer not so steep gradient. The race would have been very different if Quintana had attacked earlier - and might have been even more exciting.....

I think he'll attack earlier tomorrow but have no idea how early. That in itself makes it interesting.
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:11 PM   #660
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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Originally Posted by swighey View Post
Quintana is the best climber in the world when it is steep but there are many, including a fair few in this tour, who are better over a longer not so steep gradient.
Did I miss something in the last 2 years, because i cant really remember any important mountainstage where quintana was dropped??? Who are these riders who are better than him uphill? Must be riding some untracked euroraces
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:49 PM   #661
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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Did I miss something in the last 2 years, because i cant really remember any important mountainstage where quintana was dropped??? Who are these riders who are better than him uphill? Must be riding some untracked euroraces
I don't think you missed anything in the last two years. But maybe I missed myself saying Quintana was "dropped" because I don't recall saying it.

Who were these riders (note, I am not talking about anyone "dropping" Quintana)? Froome and Porte as far as stage 10 in this tour. Maybe some others but I can't quite pin it down right now, maybe I "missed" it. Wiggins is a better "climber" than all of these guys on near zero gradient slopes - if that helps you understand my context. Anyway, as I said Quintana is the best climber in the world when it's steep (an opinion I think you share). Maybe you think stage 10 wasn't "important" so Quintana didn't bother winning it?
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Old 07-24-2015, 02:05 PM   #662
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

My guess would be that Quintana does better on the longer climbs. Not necessarily that much about the gradient (as long as it isn't just a false flat) but the duration of the effort. Almost looks like a tiny diesel engine. And stages like today probably favor him anyway. First climb right at the start and at no point is there a fast phase before a climb. Back in the good(?) days the little climbers were usually killed on the flats leading up to the climbs. Stage 10 was much worse for him. More energy wasted getting to the climb than the bigger riders and then the climb is just a single 40 minute all out effort.

Horner still the greatest on the steep stuff, imo. Or the Giro/Vuelta winners in general since Tour usually avoids the steepest stuff. Obviously Quintana is included in that club.
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Old 07-24-2015, 02:27 PM   #663
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

That energy that he would waste getting to the climb on a shorter climb would not be wasted while climbing on a longer climb?
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Old 07-24-2015, 02:38 PM   #664
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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Originally Posted by swighey View Post
I don't think you missed anything in the last two years. But maybe I missed myself saying Quintana was "dropped" because I don't recall saying it.

Who were these riders (note, I am not talking about anyone "dropping" Quintana)? Froome and Porte as far as stage 10 in this tour.
Porte is now 2+ hours back, having finished 28 minutes back today.

Is it possible that Sky's non-Froome riders are going to be too fatigued to be of much help on Saturday? Maybe that's Quintana's plan all along--let Sky wear themselves out in week 2 and make up 2:39 on the last day.
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:01 PM   #665
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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Porte is now 2+ hours back, having finished 28 minutes back today.

Is it possible that Sky's non-Froome riders are going to be too fatigued to be of much help on Saturday? Maybe that's Quintana's plan all along--let Sky wear themselves out in week 2 and make up 2:39 on the last day.
Porte will never be a 3 week rider. All the big guns know that.
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:23 PM   #666
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Why would a domestique, having done his day's work for his team leader, do anything other than the bare minimum to get to the line?
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:26 PM   #667
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

I don't know. Ask Porte and Thomas, who were hanging around Contador on the GC standings during week 2.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:43 PM   #668
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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That energy that he would waste getting to the climb on a shorter climb would not be wasted while climbing on a longer climb?
Just mean relative to the other GC guys he goes against on the climb. On shorter climbs with easier parts leading up to the climb the teams usually push really fast on the flat. Not exactly great for the climbing specialist. It's the same reason why Quintana is much more likely to lose time on crosswinds than the better TTers.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:43 PM   #669
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Astana is probably just going to blast it up the Croix Fer tomorrow to see what happens and who suffers. Wouldn't be surprised if Froome hits the Alpe with 1 or 2 teammates and then Quintana has to go from Sastre's spot on the steep section at the bottom and dare Froome to hold his wheel
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:43 PM   #670
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Yeah, I don't get it. I guess there's an argument for seeing if there's a chance of a podium in the shake-up, which is assumedly why Thomas didn't back off at all until today when he finally blew the gasket.
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:50 PM   #671
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

Thoughts on Porte/Thomas willingly riding slow last few days to save energy for l'alpe d'huez ?

Even crazier conspiracy : thoughts on them willing riding slow last few days to avoid any doubt and speculation over their suspect strength ?
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Old 07-24-2015, 04:57 PM   #672
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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Originally Posted by Cinarocket View Post
Thoughts on Porte/Thomas willingly riding slow last few days to save energy for l'alpe d'huez ?

Even crazier conspiracy : thoughts on them willing riding slow last few days to avoid any doubt and speculation over their suspect strength ?
Thoughts on two members of a 9 man TEAM riding slow for a few days? Regardless of anything else.
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:56 PM   #673
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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Porte will never be a 3 week rider. All the big guns know that.
He's riding to what the team require of him.

I wouldn't get too caught up in where he's positioned in the overall.

If Froome walks away with the lollies he's done his job.
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:20 PM   #674
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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He's riding to what the team require of him.

I wouldn't get too caught up in where he's positioned in the overall.

If Froome walks away with the lollies he's done his job.
It's not just this race where that is the obvious situation. In the past Porte has always had at least one epically bad day per grand tour, even when he was riding as team leader. He is not a reliable grand tour leader so I hope BMC are not relying on him.
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:25 PM   #675
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Re: Pro Cycling 2015 thread: Le Tour, Giro, Vuelta, etc.

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I don't know. Ask Porte and Thomas, who were hanging around Contador on the GC standings during week 2.
In Thomas' case I can understand it because he was doing his job for Froome by being there until the top. The only exception might have been the stage to La Pierre-Saint-Martin where Froome attacked but other than that he has been needed and useful.

Tactically having him up there isn't terrible as a second option in case something happened to Froome as long as he's not harming his ability to help out when necessary.
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