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PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5)

10-13-2009 , 11:22 PM
Disclaimer: If you don't know my methodology, read this post. When I list a team or player's NFL rank, it's based on FO stats. When I list QB stats, they are adjusted for sacks.


1. NEW YORK (5-0) :
Brandon Jacobs (21-67) was criticized for his goal-to-go efforts on the first drive, failing to score on 3 carries before Ahmad Bradshaw (11-110-2) finally got in on 4th down. But the criticism was unfounded. On 1st down from the 6, Jacobs showed excellent patience, waiting for a hole to open before popping through to the 2. On 2nd down, he followed a lead block from Madison Hedgecock, but Hedgecock failed to clear a hole and Jacobs only got to the 1. On 3rd down, LG Rich Seubert got destroyed by DE Trevor Scott, who hit Jacobs in the backfield for no gain; that's hardly Jacobs' fault. On 4th down, Bradshaw followed Hedgecock, who was defeated again, and Chris Snee, who got a solid block (stunner, right?). But the star of the play was C Shaun O'Hara. After chipping the DT, O'Hara lunged and blocked the filling LB just long enough to allow Bradshaw to slide into the endzone. NEXT: @ New Orleans.

2. NEW ORLEANS (4-0) :
Like Mike Nolan in Denver, Gregg Williams deserves enormous credit for turning around the New Orleans defense, which ranks 2nd. From FO's Mike Tanier: "New coordinator Gregg Williams came to New Orleans to implement the heavy-blitzing defense he used so successfully in Washington and Jacksonville. The Saints also upgraded their secondary, adding veteran safety Darren Sharper, the NFL's active interception leader, veteran cornerback Jabari Greer, and others. Williams's schemes have the Saints blitzing much more and playing more man coverage than they did last year. The presence of Sharper and Greer gives Williams the confidence to call the defenses he wants to run. In addition to a new scheme and new personnel, the Saints have a new mindset. The Saints took Gary Gibbs' read-and-react philosophy too far last season. They sat passively in their zones, and too often lapses in coverage led to big gains or long pass interference penalties. Williams has done a fine job of implementing the new defense, and Saints players appear to know their assignments perfectly." Read the entire article here. NEXT: vs New York Giants.

3. MINNESOTA (5-0) :
Yes, they won by four touchdowns. But this was a poor performance by the Vikings. The Rams moved the ball at will, but shot themselves in the foot with four fumbles. The Vikings went three and out too many times against such a poor defense. Had this performance been against even an average team, the Vikings likely would have lost. Kudos to Jared Allen, who followed up his 4.5 sack effort last week with two fumble recoveries, a touchdown and a batted pass this week. Percy Harvin (4-66) is surprisingly good early in his career; he ranks 15th so far in wide receiver value along with the 2nd best kick return average in the NFL. NEXT: vs Baltimore.

4. SAN FRANCISCO (3-2) :
After clawing their way out of an early 14-0 hole to make it 14-10 midway through the 2nd quarter, the Niners pinned the Falcons deep and forced a 3rd and 5 from the 10. Roddy White was wide left, with Nate Clements in man coverage. Six Niners blitzed, so Matt Ryan threw a quick back-shoulder fade to White. Clements tried to make a play on the ball, but the pass was perfect and White made the catch. Now in a poor tackling position, Clements was unable to quickly turn and tackle White, who broke free. But the big problem was that veteran S Mark Roman - playing deep coverage on that side of the field - had a Jordan Babineaux moment. When Ryan threw the pass, Roman should have been sprinting perpendicular towards the sideline to maintain his depth behind the play, thus containing the potential yards after catch. Instead, he was merely jogging diagonally towards the play, not closing fast enough and losing his depth. As White spun and broke free from Clements, Roman was still a good ten yards from White, and only had three yards of depth. He never got within five yards of White as he sprinted away for a 90-yard touchdown. The Niners then fumbled the ensuing kickoff, giving Atlanta a 1st and 10 from the San Fran 38. On the first play of the drive, Michael Turner took the handoff and cutback off the left tackle. S Dashon Goldson, who had deep contain on that side, took a miserable angle and never got a finger on Turner, allowing him to rumble 33 yards to the 5. Two plays later Atlanta scored again, and the route was on. Anti-kudos to the San Francisco safeties. NEXT: Bye.



5. PHILADELPHIA (3-1) :
In one of the most aggressive defensive gameplans I've ever seen, Sean McDermott was bringing six, seven and even eight blitzers over and over in the second half. And it worked; the Eagles had at least one free rusher on all but one heavy blitz. (See Tampa Bay comment for more). Rookie WR Jeremy Maclin (6-142-2) showed good hands on a difficult 3rd down catch, and impressive ball skills on his second touchdown. After missing on so many receivers in previous drafts, the Eagles hit a home run with DeSean Jackson and Maclin is already showing promise. Kudos to David Akers, who boomed two touchbacks. Akers had been slowly deteriorating the last few years, but put in extra work this offseason to strengthen his leg. NEXT: @ Oakland.

6. ATLANTA (3-1) :
Oh, hey there Roddy White, where have you been? Along with 8 catches, 210 yards and 2 touchdowns, White forced a fumble after Dre Bly had intercepted Matt Ryan (22/32-329-2-1). Kudos to the offensive line, which was brilliant as usual in pass protection - Ryan had plenty of time to throw and wasn't sacked. The line ranks 1st in adjusted sack rate for the season, a major reason why Ryan is in the running for Not Peyton Manning MVP Award. NEXT: vs Chicago.



7. GREEN BAY (2-2) :
According to Yahoo, LT Chad Clifton is practicing and might play this week. Big, big news for Green Bay. NEXT: vs Detroit.

8. CHICAGO (3-1) *UP 1* :
While Chicago does well against tight ends (ranked 8th) and running backs (5th) in the passing game, they struggle to stop #1 receivers (20th). Roddy White is going to be a major challenge this week, and stopping him will go a long way towards getting the Bears into the playoffs. NEXT: @ Atlanta.

9. DALLAS (3-2) *DOWN 1* :
While Miles Austin (10-250-2) was having a career day, Patrick Crayton (4-44) was having one to forget. Crayton fumbled a catch and two punts, although he recovered one of the muffs and the fumbled catch was called back thanks to a dubious forward progress whistle. On 3rd and 5 from the Dallas 8 in the 3rd quarter, Crayton was the primary target on a play-action pass. But Crayton ran a poor route, not getting to the sticks or creating any separation. While Romo's throw was poor, Crayton would not have been able to make a first down even if he caught the pass. Romo went right back to Crayton on the first play of the next drive, but he dropped an easy completion. Crayton ranked 21st in wide receiver value in 2007, but fell to 57th last year and 82nd so far this year, well below even Roy Williams. NEXT: Bye.

10. SEATTLE (2-3) :
Lofa Tatupu (8 tackles) and Matt Hasselbeck (18/31-241-4-0) return, Seattle gets better! No way! Now stay healthy. Someone forward Jim Mora the memo about going for it on 4th and 1 from your opponent's 41 yard line. NEXT: vs Arizona.

11. ARIZONA (2-2) :
At halftime, Arizona had 297 yards of offense and led 21-0. In the second half, they had 43 yards. It's difficult to tell (from the TV broadcast) what adjustments Houston made in the secondary, but they were definitely rushing four/five men and dropping a lot of people into deep coverage - Warner (26/39-296-2-0) simply could not find open receivers downfield. And it wasn't for lack of trying; Arizona was in their normal offense, not a run-heavy scheme to protect the lead. Whatever Houston did, expect teams to copy it in the coming weeks. NEXT: @ Seattle.

12. CAROLINA (1-3) *UP 1* :
Since I have nothing to say about Carolina this week, I'd like to thank Peyton Manning for throwing to Austin Collie so much this week, continuing the theme of "Peyton Manning's Receiver." Can we please slip a couple of college receivers onto the Colts for a week, just to see what happens? NEXT: @ Tampa Bay.

13. WASHINGTON (2-3) *DOWN 1* :
On 2nd and 4 in the 1st quarter, Washington lined up in a typical power running formation with a TE and H-back on the left side of the line. The Panthers countered with four DL and a down LB shifted to the strong side, a S standing on the LOS to the weak side, and two LB. One WR on each side was lined up against a single CB, and with no deep safeties, the corners gave plenty of cushion. The Redskins had three good options at this point. 1) Power run. 2) 3-step drop and throw a hitch, curl or slant to a WR, taking advantage of the cushion. 3) Max-protect, throw deep. Naturally, the Redskins did none of these things. The H-back ran into the flat and was covered by a LB. The TE ran an out and was covered by the down LB. The remaining five men on the LOS blitzed, and the remaining LB (Na'il Diggs) spied Campbell. Campbell ran play-action and took a 7-step drop. Both WR ran deep routes. But by the time Campbell finished his drop, the pressure was already caving in the pocket, and Campbell panicked. He stepped up and was immediately dropped by Diggs for a sack. This play is a good example of the general problems in Washington. Their O-Line is terrible in pass protection, but instead of working around the problem, they exasperate it by running 7-step drops without max protection. In related news, Jim Zorn is going to be fired soon. NEXT: vs Kansas City.

14. DETROIT (1-4) :
From Yahoo: "Coach Jim Schwartz said that the Lions would not consider their upcoming bye week when deciding whether or not Stafford (right knee) will play in Week 6, the Detroit Free Press reports. 'We’re trying to win this football game,' Schwartz said." I really like that quote and attitude from Schwartz; we often hear about a new coach "changing the culture" of a team, and that is what Schwartz is trying to accomplish. Furthermore, the Lions were slowly improving the last couple weeks behind Stafford, so it's important to get him back under center. No one wants to see Dante Culpepper (23/43-225-1-1) getting sacked over and over. NEXT: @ Green Bay.

15. TAMPA BAY (0-5) :
Josh Johnson (26/53-218-2-3) had some early success, showing tremendous escapeability in the pocket. He completed 14 of his first 20 passes for 122 yards and a touchdown, which cut the Philly lead to 14-7 with 2 minutes remaining in the first half. The Eagles were using mostly edge blitzes, and Johnson was beating them by finding receivers over the middle or scrambling away from the pressure to the outside. But this game illustrated how new quarterbacks often have early success before defenses figure them out. In the second half, the Eagles switched from edge blitzes to A-gap blitzes up the middle. His receivers were still open over the middle, but Johnson could no longer see them with the pressure directly in his face. He crumbled, throwing three interceptions in the blowout second half. Kudos to FOX commentator Tim Ryan, who wondered aloud why the Bucs were not running designed rollouts for the extremely mobile Johnson to get him away from the intense pressure of the Philly blitz. NEXT: vs Carolina.

16. ST. LOUIS (0-5) :
Ugly and brown, just like the Broncos throwbacks. And poop. Their entire secondary is a "hole in zone." 15 straight losses now. NEXT: @ Jacksonville.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-13-2009 , 11:40 PM
When I saw the athlete thread I thought there was a chance this these rankings might take a while. Nice to see them up so quickly.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-13-2009 , 11:40 PM
I like the list, I switch Chicago and GB though.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-13-2009 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
When I saw the athlete thread I thought there was a chance this these rankings might take a while. Nice to see them up so quickly.
The athlete thread popped into my mind while watching Fitzgerald in the Arizona-Houston game. I was already done with the other 15 teams.

Probably should have finished these and then given the athlete OP some more thought, but, whatever.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-13-2009 , 11:45 PM
Also in non projective power rankings I think Seattle should be higher, but given that it is unlikely Hasselbeck/Tatupu stay healthy. I don't think they can make up the 1 game or 0.5 game difference between some of the teams ranked ahead of them.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-13-2009 , 11:59 PM
That is exactly my thinking on Seattle.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 12:29 AM
NFC West is looking totally unpredictable now. I also give 49ers the edge but any of those 3 teams could win, very close race should come down to the end.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 12:42 AM
Didn't GB sign Tauscher this week as well? He used to play RT for the team, and I think is an upgrade from their current RT.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 03:02 AM
Most important NFC game of the week next week is Chicago vs. Atlanta. Obviously NYG and NO is awesome but both of those teams look like big favorites to win their divisions and certainly to make the playoffs. Neither is really in any trouble if they lose in the least.

Bears/Falcons, on the other hand, is going to be huge in seeing how the wild-card contenders shake out. That #6 vs. #8 is more crucial to playoff hopes than #1 vs. #2.

Also intriguing is the ARI/SEA game, which will help determine who is more likely to challenge SF in the west. So i guess three NFC games worth watching this week.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 03:20 AM
Wow that San Fran write-up is ****ing awesome
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyOcean_
Most important NFC game of the week next week is Chicago vs. Atlanta. Obviously NYG and NO is awesome but both of those teams look like big favorites to win their divisions and certainly to make the playoffs. Neither is really in any trouble if they lose in the least.

Bears/Falcons, on the other hand, is going to be huge in seeing how the wild-card contenders shake out. That #6 vs. #8 is more crucial to playoff hopes than #1 vs. #2.

Also intriguing is the ARI/SEA game, which will help determine who is more likely to challenge SF in the west. So i guess three NFC games worth watching this week.
If the G-Men beat NO and Falcons handle the Bears the South is wide open. Either way the Falcons are still in the race as they haven't played NO yet. But yeah NO looks better now. I agree Bears/Falcons is an important one though. Should be a great match as well.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 05:41 AM
Wait, didn't you tell me I was underrating Dallas, but you have them in virtually the same spot?

Also really disagree with Washington > Detroit. On-field results for one; quality of coaching for two; general trending of teams' performances for three.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
Wait, didn't you tell me I was underrating Dallas, but you have them in virtually the same spot?
Didn't you have Dallas below San Fran and maybe Seattle? I think Dallas is better than both.

Edit: Actually, having Seattle above Dallas is pretty reasonable. As mentioned earlier, Seattle's future projection is depressed because of health issues, but right now they're healthy and strong.

Quote:
Also really disagree with Washington > Detroit. On-field results for one; quality of coaching for two; general trending of teams' performances for three.
WAS: -3.5% DVOA (19th)
DET: -51.5% DVOA (31st)

Washington has a harder remaining schedule, but they also have an extra win already.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 06:53 AM
Haven't done any statistical research to back it up yet, but my gut tells me that the Jacobs goaline hate is completely justified. It wasn't like Giants fans were mad because it was a one time thing. Bradshaw is consistently better on x-and-1 plays.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 07:10 AM
Is there any research on how say 230+lb backs run in short yardage versus 210-229lb and below 209 backs? I wonder if the big backs actually have an edge. Surely this kind of study can be done fairly easily.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 08:25 AM
Nice work spotting that on the White TD. We had a whole room of guys screaming at him as well. Pretty sure that film session will not be pretty for him.

I think you are overrating Dallas. But not in the rankings. They got super lucky to win this week. They really only looked good week one. Maybe their pass rush is starting to come around, they have looked bad the whole year. The fact they are 3-2 is a testament to how easy their schedule started. In my preseason predictions I thought they could run out to an 7-1/ 8-0 kind of start. This team is going to miss the playoffs again this year.

Green Bay is too high. I know they have had a lot of line issues (that may or may not get resolved), but in general the team has looked like they did last year... pretty mediocre.

Really looking forward to the Bears Falcons this week. The crazy last second win by the Falcons last year was the reason the Bears missed the playoffs.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capone0
Didn't GB sign Tauscher this week as well? He used to play RT for the team, and I think is an upgrade from their current RT.
Yes, the Tauscher signing is a huge deal if he is at 100%. He legitimately solidifies the right side of the line. With Clifton coming back too these line issues could be on their way out.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluss

Green Bay is too high. I know they have had a lot of line issues (that may or may not get resolved), but in general the team has looked like they did last year... pretty mediocre.
With these being projective I think its about right. 3 of the Packers next 4 games are against really bad teams, and the only tough game is Minnesota at home. Then they have SF at home, Dallas at home, at Detroit, Seattle at home, and at Arizona. The Chicago, Pittsburgh and Baltimore stretch should be tough, but overall the Packers schedule isn't super difficult the rest of the season.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 09:46 AM
Tanier said that Gregg Williams was successful in Jacksonville? WTF?
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUntouchable
Haven't done any statistical research to back it up yet, but my gut tells me that the Jacobs goaline hate is completely justified. It wasn't like Giants fans were mad because it was a one time thing. Bradshaw is consistently better on x-and-1 plays.
he's not and this is incorrect. FO's quick reads this week discussed it.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 09:54 AM
Quote:
Aaron Schatz:
Despite Dierdorf saying ridiculous things and confusing Grandpa Coughlin with "Uncle Tom," I do have to give him points for some good commentary regarding Brandon Jacobs. The Raiders stuffed Jacobs on the goal line twice, on second and third down. They stood him up right at the line and while they couldn't get him down, he couldn't get across. Dierdorf mentioned that Jacobs has a problem where he likes to run tall, and tends to keep his pad level high, and sometimes that creates problems in the red zone. Sure enough, Coughlin goes for it on fourth down and brings in Ahmad Bradshaw, and Bradshaw takes the same handoff up the middle, gets small, and sneaks in under a pile of Raiders defenders for the touchdowns. Turns out the Madden Truck Stick doesn't work on every single play, even if you ARE as big as Brandon Jacobs.

Bill Barnwell: Well, Jacobs has really good numbers inside the five. So it's not a huge problem for him.

Aaron Schatz: I wonder if it is a specific problem this year. Subjectively, I remembered seeing Jacobs with similar problems a couple weeks ago. I went and looked, and Jacobs is only 2-of-6 on short yardage going into this game. Small sample size, of course, but still.

Bill Barnwell: It's all small sample sizes, but he was ahead of expectation in 2006-2008. Truthfully, how low can a 265-pound guy get?
.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerFink
Didn't you have Dallas below San Fran and maybe Seattle? I think Dallas is better than both.

Edit: Actually, having Seattle above Dallas is pretty reasonable. As mentioned earlier, Seattle's future projection is depressed because of health issues, but right now they're healthy and strong.



WAS: -3.5% DVOA (19th)
DET: -51.5% DVOA (31st)

Washington has a harder remaining schedule, but they also have an extra win already.
Yeah, but a difference of one spot in the rankings isn't, like, severely underrating someone (Dallas).

Re Washington and Detroit, I feel DVOA falls short again- or at least isn't nearly taking opponent adjustments into account here. Detroit has gotten blown out a lot but has been playing good teams. Washington has played four teams who are garbage- four teams who have combined not won a single game against anyone except the Redskins!- and has either struggled to win or outright lost in all four. I have zero respect for a team keeping games close if those games are against **** teams. (And for that matter, I'm no longer impressed by their ability to lose games to the Giants closer than they should.)

Also, Zorn is a clown who will be fired soon; that Redskins team is deeply dysfunctional, openly feuding, and seems to have quit on the season, and I see them getting worse, not better, as the year goes on. Meanwhile, Schwartz has the Lions prepared each week and playing hard for him, and they only figure to improve if that's the case.

I think Washington > Detroit is a prime example of using a flawed statistic as a be-all-end-all, rather than supplementing it with your own observation and critical thinking.

Last edited by nath; 10-14-2009 at 10:21 AM.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 10:18 AM
nath: i suspect washington gets a lot of credit here for losing to the giants by less than a touchdown in an away game.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 10:26 AM
Yeah see edit. They do it every year; without having numbers at hand, I think maybe the 'Skins play to grind out more clock and keep the score closer? I dunno. They rarely get blown out, but they never look like a team prepared for, or capable of, winning.
PokerFink's 2009 NFC Rankings (Week 5) Quote
10-14-2009 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
Yeah see edit. They do it every year; without having numbers at hand, I think maybe the 'Skins play to grind out more clock and keep the score closer? I dunno. They rarely get blown out, but they never look like a team prepared for, or capable of, winning.
i mean you say that, but then you've got this year's bengals on the other hand, a team that is not particularly good but is on the right side of variance and winning close games. as assani likes to point out, the skins actually have 2 playoff berths in recent memory.
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