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Old 07-19-2016, 07:28 AM   #151
lenC
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

It's a good comparison as both tend to be the runners with the most unorthodox technique in a given race. Johnson's might have been more of a conscious decision while Bolt seems to just capitalize on his build.

Also a bunch of Johnson's 4x400 teammates were found guilty of doping yet there wasn't any trouble with himself. But I understand the occams razor argument.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:02 AM   #152
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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I think he's referring to the comment I made on the previous page about his peak performances occurring around the age of 26-27 then dropping off?
He's not even 30 yet, so it's a little hard to evaluate that he is dropping off from his peak. I believe he's been injured on and off in the last few years, but ran a 9.79 last fall.

Again, I have no idea if he's doping or not, but it wouldn't surprise me and I assume he probably is. Just like I assume that Justin Gatlin is doping even though he hasn't tested positive in 10 years.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:16 AM   #153
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by DannyOcean_ View Post
Not really the fault of RIO, but definitely lolworthy...

Apparently there are discussions going on about banning all Russian athletes. Not just the 'athletics' or track and field athletes... that already happened. All Russian competitors. New accusations from WADA that the Russian government ran doping programs in lots of sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...igation-finds/

MASSIVE lols if the #3 world sporting nation is just completely and utterly banned from competition.
Maybe the #3 world sporting nation, is not the #3 world sporting nation but a random country like East Germany wasn't really the #2 world sporting nation, but they were the best at cheating
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:53 AM   #154
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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He's not even 30 yet, so it's a little hard to evaluate that he is dropping off from his peak. I believe he's been injured on and off in the last few years, but ran a 9.79 last fall.
Peak age for a sprinter is early to mid 20s. This paper gives the age at which peak performance is reached as 22.85 years for 100m and 23.56 years for 200 meters. This meta-analysis gives peak age for sprinting events between 24.5 and 25.8 years.

9.79 is 0.21 slower than his PB, which is a lot in sprinter land. Obviously injuries will play a part in decreased performance as someone starts to age.

I completely agree on Gatlin. The man shouldn't be allowed to compete. Even if he isn't doping now he'll still reap the benefits for the increased muscle mass and so on that was obtained when he was doping.

Last edited by Csaba; 07-19-2016 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:18 AM   #155
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

I remember when people defended Lance Armstrong by saying he was just an athletic freak and better than everyone else.

Next thing you guys are going to tell me that Serena Williams is a doper. That's just crazy talk.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:48 AM   #156
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

Armstrong and the rest of the TDF cyclists were obvious dopers. I called it 4-5 years before it was confirmed and I was a slow pony on that one.
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:15 AM   #157
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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9.79 is 0.21 slower than his PB, which is a lot in sprinter land. Obviously injuries will play a part in decreased performance as someone starts to age.
I completely agree that 0.21 is a ton slower, but if you throw out the 9.58, then the 9.79 falls in line with his other yearly bests from his peak years. And the 9.79 was run in a negative wind whereas a lot of his times better than that were run in a positive wind.
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:42 AM   #158
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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I completely agree that 0.21 is a ton slower, but if you throw out the 9.58, then the 9.79 falls in line with his other yearly bests from his peak years. And the 9.79 was run in a negative wind whereas a lot of his times better than that were run in a positive wind.
Don't forget to adjust for time lost due to celebrating for the last goddamned 20 meters.
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:48 AM   #159
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by Randall Stevens View Post
I completely agree that 0.21 is a ton slower, but if you throw out the 9.58, then the 9.79 falls in line with his other yearly bests from his peak years. And the 9.79 was run in a negative wind whereas a lot of his times better than that were run in a positive wind.
I don't know a lot about that, but isn't a sprinter supposed to dope all year if he wants it to be efficient ?

In cycling you take EPO in a mountain stage so you last longer in the effort, but in sprint it's all about developing the muscles all year to be the most efficient the day of the race no ?
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:15 AM   #160
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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I don't know a lot about that, but isn't a sprinter supposed to dope all year if he wants it to be efficient ?

In cycling you take EPO in a mountain stage so you last longer in the effort, but in sprint it's all about developing the muscles all year to be the most efficient the day of the race no ?
I really have no idea. In the 9.79* 30 for 30, Ben Johnson talked about "rehabbing" from a hamstring injury leading up to the Olympics by getting special treatment for it. They also talked about having a doping cycle so that they would test clean leading up to the Olympics. If it's all about developing the muscles, then I assume you can do that and cutoff your meds prior to the cutoff for testing positive.

I assume that steroids are used in track much like they are used in other sports.... to recover quickly from an injury. So, while Bolt has been injured in recent years, running a 9.79 in an injury riddled year(s) would seem like a pretty good run to me.

Again, I follow distance runners more than sprinters and with the accusations surrounding Salazar and Galen Rupp, it would infer that it is a year round thing and from an early age. I know that Rupp does a lot of track workouts to improve his kick towards the end of the 5k/10k, but I don't know what role that has with regards to his alleged doping or his recent transition to the marathon. However, doping has been more prevalent in the Kenyan marathoners than ever before and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of doping in marathon runners because of the money involved.
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:20 AM   #161
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Don't forget to adjust for time lost due to celebrating for the last goddamned 20 meters.
This made me laugh!
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:43 AM   #162
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by guivre1408 View Post
I don't know a lot about that, but isn't a sprinter supposed to dope all year if he wants it to be efficient ?

In cycling you take EPO in a mountain stage so you last longer in the effort, but in sprint it's all about developing the muscles all year to be the most efficient the day of the race no ?
This is of course anecdotal but take it for what you will.

I used to lift at a gym frequented by professional body builders. These were guys that were national level competitors and some were multiple state champions.

After about a year of lifting there I got friendly enough with them where they were comfortable around me.

Every one of them juiced and were on cycles/programs that allowed them to test clean. They all competed in "clean" competitions and would often compare notes and discuss amongst themselves what worked for them etc.

Their attitude was that everyone did it and everyone knew that everyone did it. It was just part of the sport. Juicing so you didn't test positive was part of your workout routine, etc.

If it's like that in that sport I find it hard to believe that this doesn't exist in other sports and isn't just as common especially with the revelations of how ubiquitous it was in cycling.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:13 PM   #163
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by Randall Stevens View Post
I completely agree that 0.21 is a ton slower, but if you throw out the 9.58, then the 9.79 falls in line with his other yearly bests from his peak years. And the 9.79 was run in a negative wind whereas a lot of his times better than that were run in a positive wind.
Fair point with regards to wind speed and so on. I didn't consider that.

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Every one of them juiced and were on cycles/programs that allowed them to test clean. They all competed in "clean" competitions and would often compare notes and discuss amongst themselves what worked for them etc.
Avoiding positive tests is easy if you aren't exposed to out of competition testing. You know when the competitions with drug tests are going to be held and you know how long the substance will be in your body. Any idiot with a calendar can avoid testing positive.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:51 PM   #164
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by GusJohnsonGOAT View Post
Honestly, if Bolt is cheating then so is LeBron. Both are just freakish athletes. Tyson Gay cheating is not surprising since I can't believe someone that small is one of the best sprinters in the world.
Lebron appears to be roided to the gills, so this doesn't make much sense.

Sprinters are not traditionally very tall. Six feet, maybe. Bolt was widely considered impossibly tall.

Tyson Gay cheating is not surprising because he is an American 100m champ.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:58 PM   #165
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

LeBron was pretty damn big as a rookie. This isn't a Barry Bonds situation.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:10 PM   #166
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

How about Rudisha, who is the most impressive track athlete currently active?
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:47 PM   #167
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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This is of course anecdotal but take it for what you will.

I used to lift at a gym frequented by professional body builders. These were guys that were national level competitors and some were multiple state champions.

After about a year of lifting there I got friendly enough with them where they were comfortable around me.

Every one of them juiced and were on cycles/programs that allowed them to test clean. They all competed in "clean" competitions and would often compare notes and discuss amongst themselves what worked for them etc.

Their attitude was that everyone did it and everyone knew that everyone did it. It was just part of the sport. Juicing so you didn't test positive was part of your workout routine, etc.

If it's like that in that sport I find it hard to believe that this doesn't exist in other sports and isn't just as common especially with the revelations of how ubiquitous it was in cycling.
Professional body builders take steroids? This is quite the hot take.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:58 PM   #168
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

LeBron's been huge since like 16 or 17. Not sure that you can just eyeball him and declare him roided up.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/...team-rio-games

Russia thing may actually happen. I don't think they have the balls to do it, but apparently they're exploring the legal options they have right now.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:04 PM   #169
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by Namath12 View Post
After this is over we'll all be laughing about how silly and overblown everyone's concerns were given that only 50 or so people died
What is the most dangerous:
-Rio Olympics
- Building the WC in Qatar
- Or being a non-Russian at the Russian World Cup
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:16 PM   #170
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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How about Rudisha, who is the most impressive track athlete currently active?
Rudisha better ROId up because he's been injured and slow this year.
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Old 07-20-2016, 01:41 AM   #171
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

So slow that he has the fastest time in the world in 2016, just two days ago.
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Old 07-20-2016, 01:47 AM   #172
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

Lebron's jaw clearly points to HGH, not roids.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:56 AM   #173
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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LeBron was pretty damn big as a rookie. This isn't a Barry Bonds situation.
Right. And lebrons physique, while seemingly otherworldly, is not exactly unnatural looking esp given his progression from a teen. Look at Dwight Howard and his shoulders for a strange physique.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:57 AM   #174
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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What is the most dangerous:
-Rio Olympics
- Building the WC in Qatar
- Or being a non-Russian at the Russian World Cup
I think I'd rather be a non Russian than a Russian.
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Old 07-20-2016, 12:40 PM   #175
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Right. And lebrons physique, while seemingly otherworldly, is not exactly unnatural looking esp given his progression from a teen. Look at Dwight Howard and his shoulders for a strange physique.
"Shoulders" is my nickname for Maria Sharapova.
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