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Old 07-18-2016, 12:27 PM   #126
suzzer99
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

I want to believe. But watching him coast across the finish line to break the record just seems really improbable w/o some help. But maybe he's just a once-a-millenia level sprinting talent.
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Old 07-18-2016, 12:27 PM   #127
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by tabbaker View Post
9.58 is all the evidence you need
On the flip side, everyone would be sure Bo is juicing now. No one can be that strong and that fast at the same time.
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Old 07-18-2016, 12:29 PM   #128
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

Honestly, if Bolt is cheating then so is LeBron. Both are just freakish athletes. Tyson Gay cheating is not surprising since I can't believe someone that small is one of the best sprinters in the world.
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Old 07-18-2016, 12:37 PM   #129
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
I want to believe. But watching him coast across the finish line to break the record just seems really improbable w/o some help. But maybe he's just a once-a-millenia level sprinting talent.
This is where I'm at. Bolt is a once in a generation athlete. I would put serious money on him being the best in a World where PEDs didn't exist. However, being the only athlete inside the top 5 that hasn't cheated seems improbable.
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Old 07-18-2016, 12:56 PM   #130
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

It has been the #1 question for 8 years now and there's still not any strong evidence. WADA has a history of not giving a **** when it comes to busting high profile athletics stars.

Re: Blake - if someone shows you day in and day out that you have zero chance of winning anything, you get desperate. I choose to believe.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:29 PM   #131
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

There's also Victor Conte, who says everyone at that level is doping to some degree.
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Old 07-18-2016, 01:38 PM   #132
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Does anyone seriously think the Jamaican sprinters aren't juiced?
Their secret is they are fueled by Red Stripe.
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:36 PM   #133
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

There is the argument that essentially the entire difference between Jesse Owens running 10.2 in 1936 and Bolt running 9.58 in 2009 can be accounted for based on improvements in track surface and sprinters spikes.

I can't say for sure that Bolt is clean, but his career actually looks a lot like that of a clean athlete. He has been well known since the age of 15, and his athletic progression follows how you would expect a once in a generation talent to progress. His sprinting form is considered to be the picture perfect form that all sprinters should aspire to, and his height provides him with a longer stride length than any other elite sprinter can run. Simply he is a freak of nature who has perfected his art.
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:45 PM   #134
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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There is the argument that essentially the entire difference between Jesse Owens running 10.2 in 1936 and Bolt running 9.58 in 2009 can be accounted for based on improvements in track surface and sprinters spikes.

I can't say for sure that Bolt is clean, but his career actually looks a lot like that of a clean athlete. He has been well known since the age of 15, and his athletic progression follows how you would expect a once in a generation talent to progress. His sprinting form is considered to be the picture perfect form that all sprinters should aspire to, and his height provides him with a longer stride length than any other elite sprinter can run. Simply he is a freak of nature who has perfected his art.
TED talk on the difference between him and Owens here. Changes in the track and spikes aren't all of the difference; however, they are a large chunk of it.
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:53 PM   #135
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Their secret is they are fueled by Red Stripe.
Hooray Beer!
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:21 PM   #136
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

Odds the Russian whistleblower gets got in the next 4 years?
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:33 PM   #137
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Aren't the athletes notoriously promiscuous? combine that with zika being sexually transmitted and this is going to be a disaster.
Every Olympic Village is basically a greased up, multi-national **** pile from my understanding.
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:53 PM   #138
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

Ye I can't remember exact numbers but Im pretty sure that the organisers of the London games distributed tons of condoms in the Olympic village
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:58 PM   #139
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Not really the fault of RIO, but definitely lolworthy...

Apparently there are discussions going on about banning all Russian athletes. Not just the 'athletics' or track and field athletes... that already happened. All Russian competitors. New accusations from WADA that the Russian government ran doping programs in lots of sports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...igation-finds/

MASSIVE lols if the #3 world sporting nation is just completely and utterly banned from competition.
That's the problem with the Olympics today. There is absolutely no respect for tradition.
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Old 07-18-2016, 04:08 PM   #140
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Ye I can't remember exact numbers but Im pretty sure that the organisers of the London games distributed tons of condoms in the Olympic village
article about this
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Old 07-18-2016, 05:37 PM   #141
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

Iirc 9 of the guys that ran the 10 fastest ever 100m times have been popped for doping. The last guy is significantly faster than the other 9. Assuming doping confers considerable advantage (otherwise who would bother?), which is more likely: that the number 1 guy is way way better than everyone else in his generation (and since records began?); or that he's significantly better than anyone else and is cheating as well. My money would be on the latter
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:16 PM   #142
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by MEb View Post
There is the argument that essentially the entire difference between Jesse Owens running 10.2 in 1936 and Bolt running 9.58 in 2009 can be accounted for based on improvements in track surface and sprinters spikes.

I can't say for sure that Bolt is clean, but his career actually looks a lot like that of a clean athlete. He has been well known since the age of 15, and his athletic progression follows how you would expect a once in a generation talent to progress. His sprinting form is considered to be the picture perfect form that all sprinters should aspire to, and his height provides him with a longer stride length than any other elite sprinter can run. Simply he is a freak of nature who has perfected his art.
Can you expand on the bolded? I follow the distance runners more than the sprinters, but Galen Rupp has been well known since at least 16 and is tied to potential doping.

I also have no idea of Bolt is clean or not, but from the history of the sport it would not surprise me if he was not clean. Actually, I'd probably be more surprised if he was clean.
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:38 PM   #143
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by Abysmal View Post
Iirc 9 of the guys that ran the 10 fastest ever 100m times have been popped for doping. The last guy is significantly faster than the other 9. Assuming doping confers considerable advantage (otherwise who would bother?), which is more likely: that the number 1 guy is way way better than everyone else in his generation (and since records began?); or that he's significantly better than anyone else and is cheating as well. My money would be on the latter
What's your view on Michael Johnson?
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:39 PM   #144
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by Abysmal View Post
Iirc 9 of the guys that ran the 10 fastest ever 100m times have been popped for doping. The last guy is significantly faster than the other 9. Assuming doping confers considerable advantage (otherwise who would bother?), which is more likely: that the number 1 guy is way way better than everyone else in his generation (and since records began?); or that he's significantly better than anyone else and is cheating as well. My money would be on the latter
ya the "9.79*" 30 For 30 was good for ^ too, every runner in that final got popped at one time or another iirc

think basically everyone has been doping in about every sport for like 30 years at least, i can't even pretend to care anymore
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:44 PM   #145
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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ya the "9.79*" 30 For 30 was good for ^ too, every runner in that final got popped at one time or another iirc

think basically everyone has been doping in about every sport for like 30 years at least, i can't even pretend to care anymore
iirc, Calvin Smith was the one who came out as the winner of that show as the one who ran his best leading up to that Olympics and wasn't doping. Not sure if he got popped afterwards.
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:07 PM   #146
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

I wouldn't put it past some countries to discourage condom use at the Olympics, especially if the man and woman are both from their country. Breed those show humans!
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:20 PM   #147
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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For those who don't want to click through, article is meh but I loved this graphic:

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Old 07-18-2016, 10:18 PM   #148
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Originally Posted by MEb View Post
There is the argument that essentially the entire difference between Jesse Owens running 10.2 in 1936 and Bolt running 9.58 in 2009 can be accounted for based on improvements in track surface and sprinters spikes.

I can't say for sure that Bolt is clean, but his career actually looks a lot like that of a clean athlete. He has been well known since the age of 15, and his athletic progression follows how you would expect a once in a generation talent to progress. His sprinting form is considered to be the picture perfect form that all sprinters should aspire to, and his height provides him with a longer stride length than any other elite sprinter can run. Simply he is a freak of nature who has perfected his art.
But seriously, he never even competed in the 100M until the year before his first Olympic gold--before that he was a 200M runner they wanted to take on 400M if he could just stop getting hurt. Basically they thought his form was **** before he started running juice-fast. Don't those other career arcs just refer to guys who started juicing late?

If his art is test evasion, absolutely.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:35 AM   #149
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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Can you expand on the bolded? I follow the distance runners more than the sprinters, but Galen Rupp has been well known since at least 16 and is tied to potential doping.
I think he's referring to the comment I made on the previous page about his peak performances occurring around the age of 26-27 then dropping off?

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Don't those other career arcs just refer to guys who started juicing late?
Not in the case of Christie:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linfor..._and_Education

Quote:
Christie faced a disciplinary hearing himself in Seoul because of an adverse drug test for the banned stimulant pseudoephedrine after he ran in the heats of the 200 m. The hearing panel decided by a single vote to give Christie "the benefit of the doubt", so no sanction was applied.
Gatlin's bans also occurred relatively early in his career.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Gatlin#Doping_bans

Quote:
In 2001, Gatlin was banned from international competition for two years after testing positive for amphetamines. Gatlin appealed on the grounds that the positive test had been due to medication that he had been taking since his childhood, when he was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder. The appeal resulted in an early reinstatement by the IAAF.

On July 29, 2006 Justin Gatlin told the media that he had been informed by the USADA that he had given a positive doping test in April the same year. He claimed his innocence in the matter:

"I cannot account for these results, because I have never knowingly used any banned substance or authorized anyone to administer such a substance to me."

It is believed that the substance that Gatlin tested positive for was "testosterone or its precursor."[8] The failed test was revealed after a relay race on April 22, 2006 in Lawrence, Kansas. The "B" sample was confirmed as positive in July.

Gatlin was coached by Trevor Graham. Among athletes Graham has coached, eight have tested positive or received bans for performance-enhancing drugs. After Gatlin's failed test, Graham stated in an interview that Gatlin had been sabotaged. He blamed massage therapist Christopher Whetstine for rubbing a creme with testosterone onto Gatlin's buttocks without his knowledge. The therapist denied the claim, saying: "Trevor Graham is not speaking on behalf of Justin Gatlin and the story about me is not true."

On August 22, 2006, Gatlin accepted an eight-year ban from track and field, avoiding a lifetime ban in exchange for his cooperation with the doping authorities, and because of the "exceptional circumstances" surrounding his first positive drug test. Gatlin appealed against the ban; an arbitration panel reduced it to four years at a hearing in December 2007. His 9.77s performance, set in May 2006, was annulled
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:05 AM   #150
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re: Olympics: RIO Trainwreck Containment

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What's your view on Michael Johnson?
For me basically being significantly better than every (other) super talented doper is enough circumstancial evidence for occam's razor to point to guilty at this point. I don't know anything about Johnson specifically though past what was in that wiki.
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