I've been very hesitant to do this thread as I really feel as I may not have as much knowledge as I'd like to have. But, I've been asked pretty consistently to do it so I'll do the best I can to answer any questions people have. Hopefully I can get some help from other intelligent football posters in here as well. This thread doesn't have to be strictly about OL, but that is where the vast amount of my football knowledge is.

For those that don't know who I am I'll right a brief summary on my football history. I played high school football in north Jersey and was a 3 year starter at left tackle. I was an all-area/all-conference player. I was recruited to division II schools and eventually chose Mars Hill College in North Carolina, they play in the SAC-8 conference which has had a few NFL players go through their schools(I remember Leonard Weaver dominating us...it was awesome). I redshirted my freshman year down there but was allowed to travel with the team, a "privilege" for redshirts. The problem while I was there? I played rush defensive end. I will say this, playing DE helped me when I transferred to Kutztown University in PA, another D2 school(personal reasons were for the transfer).

So I spent a whole year at MHC and would transfer to KU. Here I would earn the starting job of LG(moved back to OL). In the spring game I would be injured. Due to the recovery for the back injury being a year I spent the next 12 months in rehab and meetings, rarely spending time on the field. When I was cleared for August of 07 I had a chance to get myself back into the starting lineup but due to my horrible luck the same injury sparked up after a few days of contact and it ended my football career. I would spend the next two years as a Graduate Assistant. My job was to watch films on recruits and help evaluate them/recruit them. I did spend some time helping with gameplanning but not much.

Anyway, that is my story, its just meant to be a background so you guys know where I'm coming from. So fire away with any questions, I don't promise I can answer them all, but I'll try. If its about specific teams strategies its going to be very hard without film ready, its a tough sport to put into words.

Oh and I'll say it one more time, I'm more than willing to accept help from others in this thread, I don't have an ego so I'm cool with that.

stupid question, and not that germane, but:

how did you get into playing the offensive line? it's probably the most unglamorous position in any sport, despite being quite important - yet i've never quite understood the mentality of the people who play it, because of its 'unsexiness'.

it should be noted that i never played organized football.

could you give some details about the responsibilities of each position on the line and how the desired skill set varies for each

Best offensive lineman you saw at the college level?

Best offensive lineman you've played with or against?

Dirtiest things that have been done in a pile on the field that you've seen first hand?

Heh...I got "stuck" playing center in the clinic level(i believe it was 4th grade). You had to make weight from 4th-8th grade so all the kids that were the heaviest were put on the OL. Well, I was always a heavier kid so I played OL all those years and it was mostly center and tackle. So when we got to High School I just stayed at OL and they put me at left tackle.

I'll say this, I don't think one person that played OL for an extended period of time regretted it. Pushing someone backwards for an entire game is one of the most rewarding things in life. Not to mention OL is a very tight group. We would hang out together in HS, and were closer than anyone else on the football field. This was true even in college. Being on the DL had a different feel my freshman year and I was glad to get the OL group back when I transferred. Not to mention if you meet another OLineman it will lead to a lengthy conversation, I promise that.

he seems to have disappeared for 20 minutes, so i might help.

Having played high school football (i know, i know), most offensive linemen had the following attributes:
-big guys who didn't move particularly fast (yes i know that in the NFL they are lightning - its because they work out like animals. most didn't start that way)

-they don't have confidence in themselves at a super young age to be fast enough or skilled enough to play skill positions.

-theyre tough and they like hurting people, but they aren't drive by a killer instinct that DLs have where all they care about is killing a QB. They genuinely enjoy pushing smaller DLs around for 60 minutes.

-They don't care about numbers. They see football as less about passing and running and all that and more about, push the DL this way, push the DL that way. Fame or stats don't drive them, they genuinely prefer swatting away DLs like files over running around catching passes. They get satisfaction from helping a team win because they were responsible for putting that DL's face in the mud all game. and nobody getting their QB.

-The #1 factor for how a guy gets to be an OL: The first day of football when they're 9 years old, a kid shows up and the coach looks at him and says, 'You're a big boy. You stand here and don't let anyone touch the pretty boy over there"

I'm just gonna assume this is a generic offense that is a 50-50 balance pass to run. College level as NFL is a whole other animal. I'm gonna go with a 4 man front instead of a 3 as a 4 man is a bit more common.

Left Tackle: When I was recruiting I was looking at kids with size, had to be at least 6'2 for us, 6'3+ was better. With that the next thing I look at was their feet. How was their base? Did they keep their feet together or did they have them about a shoulder length apart. To close and he is getting raped on bull rushes, to wide, the speed rush is going to beat him every play. Did he move his feet while blocking or did they stop when he made contact? These are natural tendencies and very hard to change. After that, their first steps off the ball. I need someone that keeps his pad level low and his chin up. I need someone that gets off the ball just as fast backward as he does forward. After that, intelligence, the LT has to be able to outthink the DE.(NFL perfect player: Anthony Munoz)

Left Guard: This guy I need a better pass blocker than rush blocker. He is likely going against the quicker of two DTs and I'm ok giving up some size here if speed is there. Almost all rush block plays where they are going up his ass will have the center to help block and the two will then decide who chips off to the scraping LB. An important thing is I need to make sure this guy can pull and block. The LG has to be able to pull as without it you lose a lot in the offense not being able to bring him across the line to trap someone.(NFL perfect player: Bruce Matthews)

Center: A balanced player. Someone with strength and quickness. Against a 4 man front he finds himself with double teams a whole lot. But with that he gets charging LBs through gaps and has to be quick enough and strong enough to block those guys. In pass blocking situations he is usually not blocking 1 on 1 as there isn't usually someone coming through his gaps. With that, on 5 and 7 step drops he has to peel off and get a LB or DE that slips by or is coming free on the backside. Centers have be very agile as their game is all over the field as opposed to just the trenches.(NFL perfect player: Jeff Saturday)

Right Guard: Well he is usually going against the fattest DT and has to move him. I need a low pad level strong man here. He is not pulling as often as the LG but has to be quick for that. First steps are most important in this position usually as if he gives up a gap that big man in front of him is going to take on 2 players and 3 gaps, which is a huge fail for the OL. I need this guy to be a bull dozer, enough said.(NFL perfect player: Larry Allen)

Right Tackle: Footwork again is a big deal. In todays NFL he has to pass block. But in College you can still get the old school road grader and bull dozer. On pass plays though in the NFL and NCAAF he is getting help from the RB in most situations so he can give up speed here and be a bigger stronger rush blocker. Teams tend to do this as they run to the right and short side of the field more often than left and open side. (NFL perfect player: Jackie Slater)

Probably the easiest answer ever, heh. Jahri Evans from Bloomsburg, he plays RG for the Saints now. He was an absolute beast. The kid would block two kids at once on a regular basis. Watching film on him was scary. Definitely the best player I ever saw while I stood on the sidelines. Close seconds are Leonard Weaver and Brian Toal.

Parcell's nephew who's first name escapes me right now. He played for Millburn high school. He was a damn good high school player and knew how to use his tremendous size. Not to mention during Bill's year off from football he gave him private lessons. The kid was sound, but got destroyed in college due to not working hard enough and putting to much weight on. I saw him over thanksgiving this past year and he looked terrible, a horrendous waste of talent.

I was never a dirty player...but me and Parcell's had our battles for 4 years and 5 games. He was a good bit bigger than me and in our thanksgiving battle(our two high schools played each other on the holiday every single year) our junior year we got into a scuffle. It was broken up and lucky for us the next play was a fumbled snap and we both dove into the pile and I got a hold of his facemask and was trying to turn his head backwards.

Outside of that, biting of fingers, grabbing of the unmentionables, poking of the eyes, were all very common. This stuff just got worse as you got into college. People would seriously do anything they could to piss you off while you were under there...*******s, heh.

FWIW I agree with all those points. It just might be the most demanding but most fun position on the field. I know my body hates me for it but I loved every minute I played.

sup bro

Needle, how big are you and what do you do for a living? And where do you live?

I think he's still a GA or looking to become an assistant at a bigger program.

I'm closer to 6'1 than 6'0 and currently about 255. My playing weight at Guard in college was 270 or so, and at DE I was 225. Just to show the fluctuation in weight I was required to do while playing 2 different positions.

I just graduated college in May. Currently I'm just doing my summer job. But the past few months I've been non-stop applying to football schools in the south east looking for a position and been told over and over again that coming onto staff in the Fall is not a common thing and that coaching changes occur in November-January. So I'm gonna be patient until then. I did apply for a GA job at university of Tennessee...lets just say that didn't go to well, lol.

Places I might end up in the Spring are, Western Carolina, Wingate or Liberty. I'm not quite sure but they are all looking for an assitant coach and I have connections to those 3 universities. We'll see what happens as there is still a lot of time before then. Until then I'm going to try and not go insane and live at my parents house in jersey.

if AdMo fails to win a championship this year with Lakers, will Frank and Martha be upset or have a "serves you right" attitude about it?

as for a serious Q, what's a typical training schedule like? what sort of lifts and exercises are a primary focus?

Just imagine the horror

I'll just give a typical offseason week. You lift 4 days out of the 5 and conditioning with the coaches 3 days and 1 day with the team. Tuesday/Wednesday/Friday were 6am runs with the coaches. It is stations for 30 minutes, 6 stations each for 5 minutes. The last 30 minutes is up-downs and sprints. Aka misery. I've never seen so much puking before in my life, especially on friday mornings when the dumb kids would go out drinking on Thursdays.

As for the lifts, M/T/TH/F with Monday including an hour and half of conditioning after the lift with the team. Remember coaches are only allowed an allotted amount of time with the team each week. Anyway, we had 3 core lifts, bench press, power cleans, and squats.The week would typically be:

M: Heavy Bench, light incline, dumbbell pushups, a Bicep/Tricep workout and abs. Lastly the weight coach would decide on what hellish workout he would make us do for 20 minutes as team, then we ran. This would take place in the afternoon.

T: Heavy Squats, Moderate Power Cleans, calf/hamstring workout, abs. Repeat hellish leg exercise of coach's choosing. The conditioning was in the morning while lift was in the afternoon.

TH: Light-Moderate bench, Heavy Incline, Dumbbell pushups, bi/tri workout and abs. Hellish coaches decision on lift. Run for 40 minutes after.(this was usually stadiums)

F:Light squats, heavy power cleans, shrugs, shoulder workout, calves/hammies. The run was done in the morning and was the hardest run of the week. And you were asked to get the hell out. Possibly films on Saturday but that was optional.

Wednesday were days that mandatory team study hall(though some kids had mandatory every day due to grades) and professors and TAs would meet you here and help you with work if necessary. And we would watch a movie together. Its mostly to make sure the kids don't use wednesday as a day to go out and party. We were kept until about 11 or so and started at about 6:30. No football talking was allowed either.

The hellish coach's workouts were usually hold 45 pound weights in front of you and he would tell you what to do with it(called truck drivers) or an innumerable amount of pushups, running with 50/60/70 pound dumbbells, ect. It was miserable to do this after a full hard workout, but it got you in shape I guess.

Thoughts on the spread offense in college?

In hindsight it was a slam dunk idea. Take your best athletes put them on the offensive side of the ball, minimalize the risk taking of down field passing and get an athletic QB. As I said before, you only get so many hours a week with your team as a coach, a coach saw it best to sit down and just pump up one side of the field and give them the majority of time and bam, you get some unstoppable offenses.

As far as OL play in spread offenses, my problem is they never put their hands down. I think you get to comfortable in "rocking" in which OL do in a 2 stance position. I really do believe if coaches had their OL fire off the line more, especially on the speed option or speed blast/speed sweep you could get that + push. You could mix it in with counter's so defenses can't read it and also mix in the PA variations. Do these things and you can help the OL out. As it is, NFL scouts are struggling to see the true run block ability of some of these players, some lineman don't get good pushes from the 3 stance and you hide that in a stand up stance(not that, that should chance some coaches minds in to go into a 3 point. I do see benefits of the 3 point stance that some of the spread teams have just taken out of their system).

Either way, the spread won't go away and defenses will be pushed to the side as long as athletes are around, and I don't see that changing. It will take some ballsy coaches to move star players from the O side to the D side in hopes to counter the spread sufficiently for an extended period of time, and I just don't see that right now.

Is Mars Hills a JUCO? I've heard its a good football school...I played D2 Football from '83-'87(CW POST) , this was before NCAA drug testing so about %50 of our team was on the juice...and this was a time when very few people knew much about the roids outside of football and bodybuilding..

are d2 players still using performance enhancing drugs nowadays? or is it not possible because of the testing?

If I'm watching a game, what are some things I should look for in the line battle?

Mars Hill is NCAA Division 2. But some might confuse its roster with JUCO's considering its head coach loves recruiting them so much.

As far as steroids go, I have more stories than I'm willing to share, as I'm sure all that played at the college level and above have. I'll tell one that should give a good idea of how bad it is.

When I was at MHC there were kids that were attempting to sell the stuff. I remember it being 225 dollars for a cycle and my roommate decided to take it. To this day I don't know who sold it but everyone knew they could get it. But when he was taking it, along with a few other of my friends, all who were competing against me for the same scholarships(meaning very unfair to me), they say incredible gains.

In about late February our strength coach sits everyone in that weight lifting period down(there were about 4 different weight periods if i remember correctly) and said, "Guys just a note in about a month someone will be coming here to check some stuff out. I suggest everyone to get themselves together." Everyone pretty much understood what was being said and everyone that was on it cycled off. NCAA testing came and not one person was found with steroids. If I had to guess, I'd say about 60% of the team had juiced or was juicing.

The one thing that did get people was drug testing for marijuana/alcohol/ect. They were completely random and done by the school. Any traces of any kind of substance led to kids being put into programs and second offenses meant the kids scholarship would be taken and 3rd was dismissal from the team. Coaches had no control over that as that information was rarely leaked.

Hmm I've been thinking on how to answer this correctly and I haven't come up with anything, haha. So I'll just type up what I watch for.

I'm pretty big on watching LT vs RDE on almost every play. If I'm not watching the Jaguars I rarely will watch the RB/QB in a play and just keep my eyes on those two. What I do is I watch the first step of the LT to see if I can read the play and once thats done I like to see how the DE reacts. Depending on that quick 1-2 you can see how the play is gonna turn out for those 2 players. You'll already know if its going to be a physical fight or if the DE is going up field.

From there its just sit back and watch, the hand fighting and the footwork is usually most important at this point. As for interior lineman are concerned I like watching traps. If you see a guard step back and go for a trap block its fun to watch. If the DL crashes down like he is supposed to, you get a real physical battle at the point of attack(or where the ball is supposed to be going). If the DL doesn't crash you get to watch him get lit up and its usually a pancake.

Run blocking is hard to watch without the plays as the OL does some very advanced things with their DL. Maybe watch how they turn them, or where they are trying to take them. Pass blocking is much easier to watch as you know where the QB is and where the DL has to get to sack him. Not to mention pass blocking is more passive and you don't get all the bodies mixed up as each player has a gap to protect and a lane to attack.

Not a question, but just an observation:

You would think that offensive lineman are just a bunch of dumb oxen that shove the defensive players one way or the other. However, when I played in high school, our OL/DL (usually played both ways) were the more intelligent kids.... and it seems like at the NFL level, interviewed offensive lineman appear more erudite than the other position players.....

Then I found this online (I believe these statistics are from the '08 class):

marginalrevolution.com

"Paul D. Zimmerman, Sports Illustrated's renowned gridiron guru, reported the following average IQ scores for certain positions among top college players invited by the NFL to the annual scouting combine:

Offensive tackles: 112
Centers: 110
Quarterbacks: 108
Guards: 106
Tight Ends: 104
Safeties: 98
Middle linebackers: 98
Cornerbacks: 96
Wide receivers: 94
Fullbacks: 94
Halfbacks: 92"

I find this kind of fascinating. I wonder why this happens.

Sucks to be on the DL.