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NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019
View Poll Results: Who wins the Draft Lottery
Taylor Hall
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Please just not Edmonton
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Bastard (Edmonton)
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06-25-2019 , 08:54 PM
Guy Carbonneau tagged for HOF. I'm a Habs fan and I'm not sure I like it. Really good player, 3 Selkes but never scored more than 56 points at a time when point totals were higher than they are now. Seems like an almost but not quite guy to me.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-25-2019 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep
Because Dale Tallon is still their GM. Basically a waste of a first round pick IMO.

When was the last time a goalie drafted in the first round was the starter on a cup winning team? I think it was MAF in 2009.
Yeah seems dumb to draft a goalie that early but also, why are they pursuing Bob at like 10+ for seven years if they think this kid can play in the show within two to three years?
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-25-2019 , 09:24 PM
Yup looks like poor planning by the Panthers. If Dale Tallon was better at coming up with a plan that made sense maybe the Panthers wouldn't miss the playoffs every year.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-25-2019 , 09:52 PM
Goalies take forever but yeah obv dumb
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06-25-2019 , 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSawyer
I mean, they probably should but...I think they'd probably be better off matching and then trading him. Or just signing him to a huge deal for more than 5 years and insta-trading him. Like, how exactly does four 1st round picks really help the Leafs at all over the next 3-4 years? Especially since the team that offer-sheets him wouldn't have to give up a first until 2021. So Toronto would lose arguably their best player and still only have one 1st over the next two drafts.
The Leafs have Matthews/Reilly/Tavares/Nylander/Andersen and frankly that's good enough to at least compete for a Cup. After that all those guys start hitting UFA status. It would be great to be able to at that point re-sign Matthews to his final monster deal while he's still at his peak, and surround him with a bunch of first round talent for the next three years on their ELCs. You then have a highly competitive team in Toronto for 10 years, not just a few.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-25-2019 , 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Drogo_
Guy Carbonneau tagged for HOF. I'm a Habs fan and I'm not sure I like it. Really good player, 3 Selkes but never scored more than 56 points at a time when point totals were higher than they are now. Seems like an almost but not quite guy to me.
Pretty weak class when Zubov is by far the best player to get in.



Carbonneau is a very very very weak pick.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-25-2019 , 10:43 PM
Wickenheiser really the only one who deserved to get in.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-25-2019 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep
Yup looks like poor planning by the Panthers. If Dale Tallon was better at coming up with a plan that made sense maybe the Panthers wouldn't miss the playoffs every year.
Yeah Dale Tallon is a trash GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prizminferno
Goalies take forever but yeah obv dumb
Yeah I guess but a big part of this kids upside seems to be that a lot of people think that he'll be able to play in the NHL within a few years, a-la Carter Hart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker
The Leafs have Matthews/Reilly/Tavares/Nylander/Andersen and frankly that's good enough to at least compete for a Cup. After that all those guys start hitting UFA status. It would be great to be able to at that point re-sign Matthews to his final monster deal while he's still at his peak, and surround him with a bunch of first round talent for the next three years on their ELCs. You then have a highly competitive team in Toronto for 10 years, not just a few.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. They're already good enough to win the cup, right? And Matthews, Tavares, Reilly and the rest of the gang are all at or close to their peak. So what, you allow your top point-getter to walk for probably a bunch of mid-late round 1sts, some of which you won't pick until 2023 and 2024. They might not play in the NHL until Tavares contract is up, if they even make it ever. I just find it really difficult to understand how a 1st in 2024 will somehow help the Leafs win even a playoff round next year or in the years after.
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06-25-2019 , 10:50 PM
They likely won't have a choice if these rumors of 13/14 mil sheets are true. No matching will be done want or not.
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06-25-2019 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSawyer
I keep reading that the dark horse to land either Panarin or Marner is the Avalanche. Makes perfect sense, since their prospect cupboard is absolutely loaded and they have tons of cap space. It'd obviously make more sense to go after Panarin and not give up the draft picks though.
They also only have like 5 NHL forwards under contract right now and plenty of cap space with $17M to spend just to reach the cap floor. They need to do some spending. Also I wonder how much RFA Rantanen will cost?
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep
Pretty weak class when Zubov is by far the best player to get in.



Carbonneau is a very very very weak pick.
I agree but it's nice to see Zubov get it. Really deserving and he was pretty overlooked in his time. Being a great defenseman on the Dallas Stars isn't exactly the best ticket to a big profile.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Drogo_
Guy Carbonneau tagged for HOF. I'm a Habs fan and I'm not sure I like it. Really good player, 3 Selkes but never scored more than 56 points at a time when point totals were higher than they are now. Seems like an almost but not quite guy to me.
3 cups never hurts
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 10:06 AM
Wickenheiser obv very deserving
surprised that Zubov finally got in
Carbonneau over guys like Alfredsson seems pretty lol
what's a Nedomansky?

and of course no hhof class would be complete without some ****bag "builder" devaluing the whole thing
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 10:14 AM
thought i wrote some better stuff about Zubov over the years, but this is all i could find after a quick search:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off
Sort of a strange, low-profile career for Sergei Zubov. Comes in to a stacked Rangers team, and in his first full year leads them in regular season scoring, this of course in '94 when they went on to win the Cup. The next season is the lockout, after which he is dealt to Pittsburgh. He spends just one season there before being shipped to Dallas. Since then he has played 12 strong seasons in Texas. His teams made the playoffs in 13 of 16 seasons, 6 times making to the Conference finals (although he only played 11 games in '08), and both finals appearances resulted in Stanley Cup victories. His international career was over by age 26, playing just once for Russia since he was 22 (in the '96 World Cup). He won an Olympic gold medal in '92, and is the leading NHL point scorer among Russian d-men.

He's had a lot of ice time over his career, with 26:16 MPG over the 9 seasons that I have data for. He's never been worse than -4 in any season (only a minus player in 4 seasons), and +148 for his career. Oddly he only has 3 ASG appearances, somehow he didn't make it the year he led the Rangers in scoring with 89 points and was a +20, or two years later when he was over a PPG and +28 on the Penguins, or in '06 with the Stars when he registered 71 points and was +20. Just 3 fairly routine seasons from '98-'00 did he play in the ASG (has he been ducking it?). And only once has he been named to the post season All-Star Team, a 2nd team pick in '05-'06, and was nominated for the Norris Trophy for the first, and only time in his career.

Three times he has been top-10 in the league in assists, 6 times he has been top-10 in on-ice for goals for, and five times has has been top-10 in on-ice PP goals for (twice leading the league). He is 3rd in points among active d-man (behind Lidstrom and Chelios), 4th in playoff games played among active d-men (behind Chelios, Lidstrom, and Niedermayer), and 3rd in playoff points among active d-men (behind Lidstrom and Chelios).

Maybe someone who has watched him more closely over his career can speak to this, but he comes off as a poor man's Lidstrom that no one really cares about. The only time I watched him very closely at all, was in the '07 playoffs when he dominated the Canucks' top line. The top two offensive players for the Canucks were held to just 3 goals and 7 points over the 7 game series, between them (including 1 goal and 2 assists in the game 7 Zubov was out for). The Canucks had a good chance of losing the series, had Zubov not been injured and thus forced out of the last 1.5 games of the series. Zubov had 4 points, and was a +3 in the series, and committed just one penalty. The Stars had shutouts in each of their 3 victories in the series, but lost game 7, in which Zubov did not play. He was exceptional in the series, and it strikes me as though he has likely been this way most of his career.

Has he always been this good? Has he just been overshadowed this entire time? I mean, early he was playing guys like Messier and Leetch. Then for a season with Lemieux, Jagr, and Francis. From there over to some strong Dallas teams with guys Belfour, Hull, Turgeon, and some excellent undrated players. Over his career he has had some increidble contemporaries at his position, such as Leetch, Chelios, Bourque, Coffey, Blake, MacInnis, Pronger, Niedermayer, Chara, and of course Lidstrom. All of these players have won the Norris Trophy since Zubov has been in the league, a likely reason why he has just the one nomination to his name. To me, he just seems totally underrated and underappreciated. And I think the biggest reason is that Zubov has played in the same conference as Nicklas Lidstrom (and his 6 Norris Trophies) of the Detroit Red Wings (and their 4 recent Stanley Cups), not to mention the Colorado Avalanche and their success.

Basically what I'm saying is I like the pick. Zubov has been a big minute d-man on good teams pretty much his entire career, while putting up a lot of points along the way. Solid 2-way player, stayed out of the box, and also out of the limelight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off
btw if you wanna talk about underrated HOF candidates, so underrated he didn't even make Sportsnet's 12-man longlist the other day


dmen from 1990-2010

points:
Lidstrom - 1046 (HOF)
Leetch - 887 (HOF)
Blake - 777 (HOF)
Zubov - 771
MacInnis - 768 (HOF)
Niedermayer - 740 (HOF)
Bourque - 739 (HOF)

points per game: (minimum 500pts)
Bourque - 0.90 (HOF)
Coffey - 0.86 (HOF)
MacInnis - 0.86 (HOF)
Leetch - 0.85 (HOF)
Housley - 0.76 (HOF)
Lidstrom - 0.74 (HOF)
Zubov - 0.72
Murphy - 0.71 (HOF)

playoff points:
Lidstrom - 175 (HOF)
Pronger - 120 (HOF)
Zubov - 117
Murphy - 108 (HOF)
Niedermayer - 98 (HOF)

playoff points per game: (minimum 50pts)
Leetch - 1.01 (HOF)
Coffey - 0.88 (HOF)
Bourque - 0.81 (HOF)
MacInnis - 0.76 (HOF)
Murphy - 0.73 (HOF)
Lidstrom - 0.71 (HOF)
Zubov - 0.71


and unlike some of the guys above, Zubov was actually really good defensively
(HRef's d-point share stat has him as #1 defensive player itl in 00-01, and #2 in 05-06)

and he won rangz with 2 different teams


he led the 94 Rangers in points, 5 more than Messier, 10 more than Graves & Leetch

and he won Olympic gold in 1992, defeating a Canadian team featuring Eric Lindros



ridiculous!

PREACH
Zubov always seemed like a bizarre omission

underrated in Dallas, overshadowed by contemporaries (there were a lot of other good d-men during his career), and as a russian he probably had no one really going to bat for him given that the selection committee is a bunch of canadians who played in the 70s/80s. also he seemed to have split from the russian program early in his career, which also couldn't have helped.

would like to know more about him ... unless i wouldn't, if you know what i mean.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 11:17 AM
DGB the other day posted an article including an offhand comment that Bergeron might not be a lock HOFer. Think we can safely throw that out of the window with Guy in.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by royalblue
DGB the other day posted an article including an offhand comment that Bergeron might not be a lock HOFer. Think we can safely throw that out of the window with Guy in.
what a take
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 02:16 PM
Luongo retires. Nux get 3m cap recapture hit for many years
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts
Luongo retires. Nux get 3m cap recapture hit for many years
Can you explain this to me like you would to a 2 year old? I generally get the concept of how managing cap space is critically important to roster building, but I don't know any of these specific rules about buy outs, etc.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhands
I would have hoped The Jets would keep either Myers or Trouba, if not both.

Giving up Trouba and PK for nothing is weird. You get picks and prospects from Vancouver or Edmonton, at least.

Some new idea about winning with any body as 3, 4, 5 & 6 D?

It seems stupid.
Myers was one of the 15 worst dmen in the league last year.
Trouba was one of the top 25.
They're both getting around 8 million a year.

Lol nucks.
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 03:04 PM
I'm not fully versed but basically there's a salary recapture rule and if someone retires while still under contract, the team that drafted the contract has to pay cap hit. So even though Luongo on the Panthers, because the Canucks did the contract they need to pay the recapture penalty. It's x years and x% of salary. Not sure what x is.

This is why instead of recapture penalty, people like Hossa became allergic to their equipment so they could go on LTIR and not be subject to recapture.

More recently with Callahan and his degenerative back disease.



I guess FLA needs to pay a bit too
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 03:07 PM
cap recaptures and offer sheets

2019 is nice
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSawyer
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. They're already good enough to win the cup, right? And Matthews, Tavares, Reilly and the rest of the gang are all at or close to their peak. So what, you allow your top point-getter to walk for probably a bunch of mid-late round 1sts, some of which you won't pick until 2023 and 2024. They might not play in the NHL until Tavares contract is up, if they even make it ever. I just find it really difficult to understand how a 1st in 2024 will somehow help the Leafs win even a playoff round next year or in the years after.
The point is that their window is open right now, with or without Marner, and it remains an open question as to who was zooming who: Marner or Tavares.

By letting Marner walk, they can use that cap space immediately elsewhere and then set themselves up with first round talent on ELCs (and thus an excellent salary cap position, which allows crushing trade wins as we saw this weekend) to have a much longer window than 3-4 years. Are they a little worse the next 3 years? Yes, but not so much that they're out of the Cup conversation.

If I was ranking the keys to a team having success in the league in the foreseeable future, "contributing players on ELCs" would be very close to the top, right beside "elite goaltending".
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker
The point is that their window is open right now, with or without Marner, and it remains an open question as to who was zooming who: Marner or Tavares.

By letting Marner walk, they can use that cap space immediately elsewhere and then set themselves up with first round talent on ELCs (and thus an excellent salary cap position, which allows crushing trade wins as we saw this weekend) to have a much longer window than 3-4 years. Are they a little worse the next 3 years? Yes, but not so much that they're out of the Cup conversation.

If I was ranking the keys to a team having success in the league in the foreseeable future, "contributing players on ELCs" would be very close to the top, right beside "elite goaltending".
What cap space? They have to clear to sign Marner. If he walks their team is their team and still have to bring in 2 D
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 07:42 PM
has any other team ever paid that cap recapture bull****? (or will ever)

Benning & Aquilini are such a ****ing pathetic joke and totally deserve each other


if only this wasn't like the 1 team i actually care about... fmfl
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote
06-26-2019 , 07:43 PM
no and it's hilarious
NHL Offseason and Draft Thread 2019 Quote

      
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