players that have been drafted: wayne gretzky, mario lemieux, mark messier, nicklas lidstrom, dominik hasek, patrick roy, martin brodeur. everyone else is not allowed (except bill berg).

duly noted.

Yeah, the only place Orr has in the record books now is being second all time in +/-. His points/assist totals have been shattered.

no, i don't think so. hell, i'll even remove the entire edmonton oilers from the league and see what the average is. it's not even close - if i remove the oilers, the average goes down only .14. it was an incredibly high scoring time - basically it's as if babe ruth were playing in the years between 1995 and 2005 in baseball, with the worst pitchers in baseball in his division, and a tremendous amount of lineup protection.

if you're saying gretzky's way of playing increased scoring around the league, i suppose that's acceptable, but also not that germane, as bobby orr's style of play no doubt influenced defensemen in his time too. that's basically impossible to quantify.

+1. well put

im not sure if you're writing this for me or for the forum. i agree with all this, my post was pretty tongue-in-cheek. bobby orr reinvented playing defence. All the other, um, guys, who um, are good, um today, play the way they do because of him. nobody has influenced the game the way he has. weirdly enough, from my understanding, Orr played more like a current Capitals winger than Gretzky. When he got going up the ice, there was just no stopping him, he just skated with the puck until he was ready to put it in the net. Gretzky was more a puppeteer, picking up the puck here, putting it there, waiting, engaging, back out, and the puck always ended up in the net.

NHL teams have always modelled their styles after the most successful teams. I won't insult you by bothering to elaborate.

The Oilers were the first real run-and-gun team of the 80s and they were built around Gretzky - they were built on speed and offensive creativity. They killed penalties with their best offensive players. When the Devils got successful in the mid-90s, suddenly everyone was using the trap. The 2009 Penguins are the 2008 Red Wings as far as style goes.

Extend this draft back 20 years and I still take gretzky.

Can someone explain the story of the gretzky trade to me.

$$$

OK, there was only one post that needed to be put back, thanks. Gamblor, sorry if I was a dick it's just that a bunch of people freaked out and it appears you broke like the biggest rule of the thread pretty blatantly.

Peace out and go Wings.

for the record, Gamblor, everyone wouldve taken Wayne 1st overall...if any pick, this pick needs the least defending.

also, you dropped another name in your last post.

Golden Rhino is on the clock.

Who has his list?

Heh, Gamblor I had just written a PM telling you to edit your post again, but I see you already did that so I won't send it.

I understand that for people new to drafts it can be a bit weird to have to monitor your posts to not name OR REFERENCE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER players, but please do make an effort. I definitely don't want to penalize anyone draftpicks for repeated offenses because I don't think its intentional.

It probably isn't as important right now when everyone knows who the top available players are, but I'm going to be much more strict with this rule once we get past the first round.

no offense taken, it was well deserved.

oilers owner was short of money, decided to trade gretzky for 3 decent players and 15 million dollars. of course if you listen to people in the media all the nhl's ownership problems begin and end with gary bettman, but they exist long before his tenure as commissioner.

btw i'm not questioning gretzky as 1st overall pick i think that's pretty ldo. i just think orr doesn't get enough credit as possibly the best peak player of all time.

Does this apply to other threads in the forum?

Pocklington, Edmonton's answer to Harold Ballard, lost a ton of money in meat packing and was forced to raise cash quick. Gretz more or less got to choose where he went, and he chose a place that would have the chance to resurrect a hinterland franchise that had recently lost a player (I don't think he's eligible but I'll refrain from any further description), had found a new owner in the future-convict Bruce McNall, and was in a city where his new wife could further her acting career. 3 other players went to LA, two in particular at Gretzky's request, and 2 came back to Edmonton, plus the Kings 1989, 1991, and 1993 1st round picks, plus $15 million.

The trade, at its core, was #99 for $15 million and 3 first rounders.

Haven't yet read all the posts since lat night but I think this is a good point. One could argue that the goalie is a more important player individually than any defenseman or forwrd; however when comparing when comparing the POSITIONS goaltending, defense and forwards, I'd value defense as highest, especially in this format where you only have four defensemen and each has to play 30 minutes. If you have one weak link, you're finished. You better have four guys who excel on the power play, at even strength, and short handed, and who consistently logged 25+ minutes a night in their careers.

Not at all, just this one and the writeup thread.

I think a goalie, more than any other position, can guarantee that a team is at least above average. For example, even a guy like Gretzky was on a 27-45 team once. Or a guy like Lemieux was very prone to get injured and miss a ton of time. Yet Brodeur never had a losing record in any season of his career.

there are other goalies who are quite good but who missed the playoffs in their first several seasons. brodeur has never had a losing season in part because his team (aside from 2007-08) was always excellent.

the thing is we are comparing the players impact individually at this point, it's not like u can take 4 defencemen with your 1st pick

also i thought we had settled on 5 defencemen not 4? can someone clear this up?

nah, its 4D, 9F, 1G

Q: would stickying the picks thread make it easier enough on you guys that it's worth doing? I was asked to do so and if it's helpful that's fine, but generally I prefer as few stickies as possible.

(Of course, Cla.rk may just sticky it straightaway without asking but if it provides limited value only to the 19 of you in the draft then I'm not sure everyone else needs to see it.)

I'm not sure how many people you guys feel would be ideal for the draft, but I'd love to take a spot if you'd like another owner.

Edit: I also realize that people are trying to plan out picks and trades and adding more owners can mess that up. I think there should be a max amount of owners so people can plan.

Cool, you're in. You pick 24th in the first round I believe.