you're asking for evidence for why he can't do something he's not currently doing. the evidence is...he's not doing it. once he starts doing it, I'll change my mind!

bc this is the confusing part. Kamara is mega elite and good enough to be the every down back, but Mark Ingram is also too good for him to get ahead of? it's not like he's sitting behind 2001 Marshall Faulk here.

And like wheatrich, you're conflating "doesn't" with "can't".

That could happen to literally any position. Running backs aren't unique.

"Ahead of"? Again, you obviously don't know how the Saints' offense works. And no running back is going to get 35 touches a game, which is what Ingram and Kamara have been combining for since AP was traded. If "35 touches a game" is the metric which you demand a RB meet or he's fungible, well, lol and good luck finding one.

Trey Edmunds took some carries in garbage time of the Buffalo game but I think it's 100% been Ingram/Kamara in the backfield otherwise.

And I love how people make generic arguments instead of actually looking at the specific player they're supposedly evaluating. "Well, uh, I believe X Y and Z about running backs so there's no such thing as a good one."

You know what this entire discussion reminds me of? It reminds me of posting poker hands on 2p2 in the olden days, and getting a bunch of responses that were essentially "in generic situation X I would do Y," ignoring the actual specific situation and player we were dealing with.

Again, I feel like most of the Kamara critics haven't even watched him or done their in-depth research, they just looked at one or two numbers or are so anti-RB they've already jumped to conclusions.


Onto other topics:

The Browns have acquired a lot of young talent, particularly on defense. Hue has handled DeShone Kizer badly and made a number of other baffling in-game decisions (remember that read option on third-and-11 last week? And then punting from inside the opponents' 40?). He also hired human trash can Gregg Williams as DC, who now that he's not allowed to kill offensive players looks like garbage because his entire strategy is "blitz and play safeties 40 yards off the ball."

Bell also lost a lot of weight from season one to two, and his increased quickness has made a substantial difference in his game.

I dunno where he'll go as I have no idea how teams rate this year's receivers. I expect Sutton, James Washington, Calvin Ridley, and Christian Kirk to be first-rounders, at least, but that's as far as I've gotten.

Rex Burkhead has got 4.4 ypc. Kamara has 7.0 ypc. For RBs it doesn't get much more different universe then that.

That being said 9/10 in the top 10 you should either draft a QB or trade down. And while Kamara is clearly having an amazing, amazing season and is an extremely talented back I think it's extremely likely that this will go down as the best season of his career. Wonder what a good line on his YPC next season would be. I'd probably take the under on 5.0 altho Jamaal Charles pretty much was 5.0+ every year. CJ2K broke 5.0 1x and ADP broke it 2x.

do you know when it's impossible to get a 7.0 YPC? when you're an every down running back

I just know that Ingram has 2x as many carries (180 carries vs 86). If in the Saints offense that means that Kamara isn't behind him....ok.

(and yeah, Kamara has 18 more receptions, but again that is evidence that he's much more of a 3rd down / situational player than an every down back)

COULD he be a true every down back? Sure, but I have no idea. But until that happens I'm not gonna assume it could happen

Rex burkhead: every down running back.

if you think Kamara is gonna maintain 7 YPC as his carries increase, GLWT

My dog Dalvin Cook has more carries in 3.5 games than Burkhead has this year and Dalvin's got 110 more yards too. WTF are you talking about? Good ninja edit cuz yikes.

Lol wish I had quoted that

The problem is really this entire redraft concept 12 weeks in. Obviously rbs show their value faster than just about any other position so a standout rb is going to look like an obvious high pick for a redraft due to so many guys who have not had an opportunity to to dissociate themselves from their draft slot in the upward direction.

But the kamara haters aren't really focusing on the fact that the rookie pay scale makes it almost impossible for any rb to warrant a super high pick and are instead just talking nonsense about him not being able to play enough snaps.

yeah it was misstated but the point is Burkhead is getting different carries. He is the Pats goaline option. He gets plenty of between the tackles type runs on 1st and 2nd down. I mean the 3 guys I listed are the 3 Pats RB's.

James White is a classic 3rd down receiving / pass blocking back
Dion Lewis is 5' 8, 190lb, and plays bigger than that, but still is not gonna be confused with Christian Okoye

and then there is Burkhead. He is the closest thing to a traditional RB that the Pats have so he is getting plenty of traditional RB looks. Well, Gilleslie is really the closest but he's been a healthy scratch

Hey, the Patriots drafted Tom Brady in the sixth round, so why does anyone take QBs early anyway? Waste of money imo.

LOL. Rex Burkhead is basically Alvin Kamara now. This is good.

Since Adrian Peterson was traded, Ingram has 165 touches to Kamara's 111. Much closer to 60/40 than a clear lead, and Ingram has been the guy they go to for mop-up work when the game is out of hand (which, if you haven't noticed, has been quite often for a 9-3 team).

Kamara might not maintain 7 YPC over a larger load, but watching him actually play, and looking at advanced stats, he's consistently successful, he consistently gains more yards after contact than almost anybody, he's leading the league in rushing DVOA and DYAR by a LOT (Ingram is second in DYAR, for the record), as well as receiving DYAR for backs. I don't think his numbers will suddenly plummet to ordinary if he goes from 14 touches a game to 20, because there's no reason to think so.

It's evidence that, exactly like I said, you don't watch the games or study the player, you just looked at one or two counting stats and combined them with your anti-RB bias.

As I said earlier ITT, I think the fact that RBs show their value so fast is a huge argument in favor of drafting them early; you're far more likely to get your money's worth over the life of a rookie contract.

Falcons/Saints game opened as a Pick Em. Saints peaked at -1.5 but game settled back to Pick Em early this morning. All the late money must be going on Falcons because they are now 2.5 pt favorites. Interesting.

Someone better informed than me: does this essentially end the Brown's approach to player acquisition and a focus on the long term? Or are there other influential people in the organisation to continue it on?

Of course Jimmy Haslam would promise Sashi and DiPodesta a chance to really rebuild properly then fire them after less than two seasons. He continues to be an awful owner. The Browns' problems start with him.

Ryan Shazier is not recovering as well as expected; the injury was much more severe than originally thought. He may never play football again.

Yeah, I dunno what's going on there. Really hoping it's not some insider info that Lattimore is out. That said, Atlanta is a good team.

These arguments are bad arguments

Where did you find an argument in that statement of what happened.

I’m not saying that’s your argument and I agree wentz specifically is probably why he was fired, it’s just a stupid reason is all

I am going to go with the theory that Hue is a garbage coach. I don’t see how anybody can defend him.

Bill Belichek also had a losing record with the Browns. Your turn.

I apologize for everything nice I've said about the Browns for the last 2 years.

Lol Browns.

1. Frowns

Really never understood the love the Browns got on this forum once they started stockpiling picks as nothing indicates that the "new" Browns management has ever been adept at identifying or developing talent.

That said Hue is a much better fit for a team with good offensive pieces in place. Then his creativity can shine. When your QB can't hit the broad side of a barn it's going to be hard to have any success without an all-world defense. "Young talent" isn't going to cut it, you need all-pros at every level like the Bucs and Ravens teams of the early 2000s had, or to make it more recent like Denver for Manning's last season.

They were doing the exact same thing as the Jaguars & Raiders only on a much grander, more deliberate level.

The correct way to finish this off was to hire a great personnel guy to supplement the team, & to fire Hue who has shown he's actually sneakily incompetent.

Instead they'll hire some random hack like Jerry Reese who will pay tons of money for meh free agents & will blow the great foundation they currently have.