Are you sure?

This is why this conversation has sort of spiraled out of control. People really are that high on Cousins (like the one guy who said you can't say he's not a top 5 QB).

I think Dkgo is just staying in character on the Cam stuff and doesn't really believe that. I mean Cam got Rivera two Coach of the Year awards and won MVP for leading the highest scoring offense in the league with Ted Ginn Jr as his #1 WR and JStew and Fat Mike Tolbert as his RB's. He's obviously hyper mega-elite and the primary reason Dkgo hates Cam is because he knows Rivera and Shula are never getting fired with Cam carrying their worthless asses.

Alvin Kamara's concussion is proof that a RB is unlikely to be able to play 16 games for you given a high work load. Or are you going to argue that more touches doesn't increase a player's risk?

I would snap take Cousins over Cam at this point in their careers, fwiw (this may not have been true 1-2 seasons ago).

It's proof that if a player takes a hard shot to the head, they can get a concussion. That's true for players of all sizes and regardless of their workload.

Of course you'd take Cousins over Cam; you've been wrong about damn near everything else.

Yeah, I suppose you're right, which is crazy to me. It's so obvious to me how much that Carolina offense is predicated on Cam carrying it on its back vs. how much Washington's offense has been set up to put Cousins in the easiest position possible to succeed (much like McVay is doing with Goff this year).

Why would dkgo get the benefit of the doubt? When the Panthers are playing every gameday thread this year has featured at least one anti-Cam screed.

Also, @JMurder, my intent really was to imply that Cousins was definitely the fifth best QB in the league, but rather that he's little different from anyone else other than the 3-4 QBs are clearly better, so at least an argument can be made. The differences in production and performance for QBs clearly outside the top tier seem to be small enough that any attempt at a linear ranking is pretty silly.

And y'all, we really should be talking about this. What movie is it? Why won't he tell people? What does he think could be misunderstood?

He's probably a pedo who enjoys children's programming.

Unless the movie is the Will Smith Concussion movie, I fail to see how it could cause a misunderstanding.

I agree (with currently available stats anyways). but if I'm starting somewhere, ANY/A is a pretty good spot. probably better than any other single starting point there.

a few things here:

1) what do you mean by "watching games"? bc I think you're saying you can get a better sense of how good a QB is by watching his games vs looking at his stats. which sounds ok, until you get to the point where you need to compare him to other QB's. bc have you watched every game for every QB? and if not, then how you can possibly intelligently do a ranking of every one based on watching games?

2) as said above, it's not really a binary choice though. If I was seriously invested in debating Blake Bortles vs Kirk Cousins, I would start with their stats and then adjust by looking at teamates, coaching, etc. however...

bolded is a very slippery slope that completely subject to bias. what is "inaccurate"? do you have an accuracy rating for every QB? if not, then docking Cousins based on whatever your grade is...is very problematic

"supporting cast" is a better bar argument. if the Redskins sign a super WR and it helps Cousins, ok. but if your argument is that Cousins is overrated bc he's getting carried by the likes of Pierre Garcon and Jameson Crowder...that's not super convincing.

re: system - again, maybe. but it begs the question of why other teams haven't copied a magical system that allows an average QB to put up great stats. and maybe they will someday, but I'm skeptical on that front until it happens / we have a bigger sample

Lol

There's all sorts of cinema with edgy/dark sexual, violent, or comedic content that a public figure might not want to share his interest.

If you think cousins is the 15th best qb in the league you are ****ing crazy.

Sean mcvay helped him out a ton, but he is firmly in that 7-10 range and if YOU are a team in need of a qb you should give him 25 mil a year.

If coupons was on the jags they would be afc favorites. Not an exaggeration.

Agreed. They probably have the best chance of anyone that is currently in the AFC field of knocking out the Pats.

the Jar Jar Binks Star Wars?
Suicide Squad?
Battlefield Earth?
that human centipede movie?
The Room, but not ironically?

ROG is out...in 2024

Cam and elite really don't go well together. He had 1 elite season but that is more the exception than the rule obviously. When you are in the Superbowl and the opposing defense wants you to pass, that is a good indicator you are not an elite QB.

basically, Monster and Nath, I completely agree that ANY/A is not end all be all. if you want to make adjustments to it based on context, I think that's correct and I agree with that approach. however I think you need to be careful / thoughtful about that, bc when you just say he's "inaccurate" I think that's pretty meaningless and there is a good chance you hurt, rather than help, your rankings that way

Lmk when you have an argument for this beyond his box score stats

the classic example is probably Matt Cassell. he had multiple years to learn from elite coaching/system and was surrounded by super elite talent all around him in 2008. he played that year in his prime. he had every advantage you could possible have. and his ANY/A in NE that year (6.04) was higher than it was in KC (5.07) and MIN (5.2)

so yeah, obviously you need to consider context, but how much and when is tricky.

I think the most important takeaway from the Caldwell thing is that he's not prepared enough to have a non-embarrassing answer to that question, & not smart enough to think of one on the spot.

Moneyball ldo

Something to consider:

Pats leading rusher that season was 32 y/o Sammy Morris with like 700 yards.

Two years later when Cassel put up a similar ANY/A with the Chiefs, he had JC & Thomas Jones rushing for a combined 2,363 yards.

Plus he'd actually had a chance to play QB before. Plus it furthers my point that a 28 y/o QBs are better than 26 y/o QBs

standard

Watching games + advanced stats > only watching games > only looking at advanced stats.

I don't think you need to perform a comprehensive analysis of every QB in the league to make a rough estimation of who is good and who isn't. There will obv be errors and blind spots, but I don't think it takes long at all to see that ~Mariota is more physically talented than Cousins. Replace Mariota with Cam or Wentz or whoever you want. Carr is also super overrated imo for the same reasons Kirk is.

I also think you're way underrating Washington's supporting cast over the last few years. When the oline is healthy they're a top five unit pretty safely, and I believe PFF ranked them as #3 last year for what that's worth. Also, Djax/Garcon/Reed/Vernon Davis/Thompson/Crowder is an elite group of receivers. Cousins has played a large chunk of his games with an absolutely elite supporting cast.

tl;dr my main point here is a QB's ability to put the ball in a certain spot is 1000000x more relevant than any advanced stat unless there's a stat that is actually good at showing that.

It's 50/50 for first rounders historically. People that everyone laughed at when they got drafted is pretty much 100%. (I just made this up, I'm sure that's right)

Most draft analysis for the highly paid guys on TV or media is straight garbage.
There's already way too many draft guides out there you can buy for some reason though I hear a few teams actually do, why pay a scout when you can pay 10 bucks.