I got criticized for saying I criticized him for taking Kelly over Marino when I didn't do that at all. In fact, I explicitly said good on Polian for not taking Tony Eason or Ken O'Brien. Someone's making something up, but it isn't me.

....You were definitely making something up, and if you weren't criticizing then at the least you were laughing your ass off about it? All over the fiction where he drafted a Hall of Famer no less.

That’s implying that Polian was GM of the Bills when they drafted Kelly. He wasn’t. And that’s what Noodle said. Just admit when you’re wrong, Dude.

Oh, I totally missed that he wasn't responsible for that. Well, then, of course I was wrong about that.

However, I find it extremely weird and confusing that you guys simultaneously think I'm being too hard on him, and your big piece of evidence is that I gave him credit for a good decision he didn't make. That's probably why I didn't understand what you were saying.

Link to all of Dougie Ps 29 4th down attempts. The list tracks points differential after success or failure, where they ran hot. I don't see how they get HFA and win the SB without these.
http://www.phillyvoice.com/analysis-...it-calls-2017/

Edit: I don't watch enough other coaches regularly to know how many other coaches would make those calls.

FWIW Nath, I think he’s amazingly overrated, and that you’re right about him. He just didn’t draft Kelly.

I was just responding to whomever implied that drafting Kelly over Marino was a huge mistake and that the Bills would’ve won all 4 SBs if Marino has been the QB. I’m touchy like that.

Yeah, I deserve that. I'm just saying, he also wrote "don't let that stop your blind hatred from blaming him for passing over Marino," which I didn't do at all and which is why I called him out for not actually reading what I did write.

Also, LOL at someone getting so angry over criticism of his team's longtime GM. Imagine if I just flipped out anytime someone said something about Mickey Loomis.

Yeah I think there was some confusion there too-- I'm not blaming anyone for drafting a hall of fame QB, ever. I just saw some of Marino's tape recently and was astonished how unreal it looks. Not saying he's the GOAT, but Marino did stuff as a QB that nobody can do even now, and I'm a little bit in awe whenever I watch it.

Dude, just take the L and move on.

lol

I was watching Marino and Kelly battle it out back then, and it was awesome. Add Montana and Aikman and Fouts and Elway, and man, was that a time to watch football. Even O’Brien had a good career as a Jet!

Marino was the best of them, no doubt. He was unreal. So much fun to be a fan then.

Aikman was after the time frame you're talking ftmp.

Cunningham tho, along with some others.

Man, just looked at the '84 draft. The first qb taken wasn't until the THIRD ROUND!

Jeff Hostetler went #59 to NYG and was ldo Foles before Foles.

27! That means 26 teams passed on him. Only two of those teams had the excuse that they also took Hall of Fame QBs. My astonishment is about all those teams passing on him, not the Bills specifically.

I mean, with Marino's tape, he could've been doing rails in the green room at the draft and I'd probably still take him in the first.

Aikmen beat Kelly in two straight Super Bowls. I know, I was there for the first one. Marino was still playing then, too.

Loved Cunningham!

Right, but you mentioned Fouts. His last year was '87 and Aikman was drafted in '89. Steve Young and Brett Favre are more the contemporaries to Aikman imo.

Mid 80s guy meriting mention is also obv Moon. Along with my childhood fave of Boomer.

I think the clear intent of Nath's post was to lol at everyone for passing on Marino. Like there was def some shade being thrown at Polian, but in this particular instance I think it was kinda just a misunderstanding on both sides. Should be pretty easy to move on, doesn't have to be a winner in every internet battle

Yeah, I forgot Young...Fouts does belong in the previous era. Moon was always fun to watch.

It's way under 26. The Bucs, Browns, 9ers, Saints didn't pick in round 1. Eric Dickerson was pick#2 and was elite. Other teams had their guy at the time (Chicago had McMahon who was rookie of the year prior to that draft and picked twice and hit both picks). 9ers had Montana anyway. Giants had Simms. etc etc etc if I bothered to fully look it up. It's definitely under 20 and maybe it's like lol @ 12 or so.

The Bucs is a note as one of the worst decisions ever, they traded their 1st to chicago in 83 so they'd get a 2nd in 82 on a guy who couldn't play worht a damn, despite the fact that everyone in the room but one guy thought the 83 draft was better than 82 and it was dumb to do that. They wanted to draft that guy in round 1 and somehow screwed that up b/c you actually had to call in and the guy on the other phone who had to submit the pick thought he heard someone else because well 80's phone technology wasn't that great.

Ah, man, if I can unreservedly laugh at only twelve teams for passing on Dan Marino with no viable excuse, it's just not the same.

Didn't the Bucs draft the wrong guy with a similar name and had to trade back up to get the guy they actually meant?

edit: No, here's the story. They had it down to two names and failed to properly communicate to the guy turning in the card which one they wanted. Then they traded next year's 1st for the other guy, lol. And he ended up busting quickly, too.

Also, the guy in charge of turning in the card was the team's equipment manager. I don't think we can really overstate how shoddy NFL team operations could be.

lol nath, like 0/this week in reading the posts you respond to, all while criticizing others for that characteristic

The story I always heard was that they made a mistake on the name. Now you're just trying to drag me into a fight and it's tiresome.

Some random 1983 draft stuff...

The Bills drafted LB Tom Cousineau with the #1 overall pick in the 1979 draft (a pick they acquired from the 49ers in an OJ Simpson trade. Cousineau accepted a lucrative deal to play in Canada, & then returned to the NFL in 1982. The Browns acquired Cousineau's rights, giving up their 1983 1st, 1984 3rd & 1985 5th. He went on to have a mediocre career.

The Bills GM who made that trade was Stew Barber, who served from 1979 to 1982. Pat McGroder took over in 1983 & presided over the draft. He took Kelly 14th overall, with the pick acquired from the Browns.

The Bills also had their own pick, the 12th pick. With that pick, they had passed on Kelly, for a TE named Tony Hunter. Hunter spent 2 years with the Bills, amassing 700 yards & 5 TDs, then 2 seasons with the Rams before being out of the league.

The Lions at #13 curiously took a FB named James Jones. I suppose Jones was fairly successful for a FB & played for 9 years, the 1st 6 with the Lions. He had 2 seasons with around 900 yards & 7 TDs, but averaged 3.6 ypc in those years. Offenses appear to have changed over the last 30 years...

Apparently the Lions were comfortable enough with Eric Hipple to pass on a QB in that draft. In his 1st 2 seasons, including 14 starts, Hipple had a 48% completion % with 16 TDs & 19 Ints.

The Bengals & Raiders had a 34 y/o & 36 y/o QB respectively. They drafted centers at 25 & 26. Marino went 27, Darrell Green went 28.

With the 39th pick the Bills drafted cornerstone OLB Daryl Talley. McGroder lasted only the one year as the Bills GM however. He was 79.

Gary Kubiak, Richard Dent & Mark Clayton went in the 8th round; while Mike Mularkey went in the 9th round.

The Chiefs took notable bust Todd Blackledge 7th. He had a career 51.8 completion %. In his NFL career he had a 48.1% with 29 TDs & 38 Ints.

The Patriots took Charles Carroll Eason IV (Tony) with the 15th pick. His main statistical red flag was 15 INTs in his last year of college.

The Jets took Ken O'Brien 24th. It's hard to find his college stats because he went to UC Davis.

Of course, John Elway went #1, but he was drafted by the Baltimore Colts originally, before forcing his way out. The trade was Elway for T Chris Hinton (#4 in 1983), the Broncos 1984 #1 (18th pick, used to draft G Ron Solt) & back up QB Mark Hermann. Hinton had a good career, but lol Colts. Anyway, here's an article on the background story I thought was kind of interesting:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mil...ecame-a-bronco

What did all 5 QBs in the 1st round of the 1983 draft have in common? They were all 6'3 or 6'4, & white. The 6th QB wasn't taken until the end of the 5th round (if you're curious, he was also 6'3 & white).

No real point to this tl;dr.

The rules of the game had to be rewritten before anyone could surpass Marino's output. The only thing bad you can really say about the guy (on the field) is that he didn't win a title.