Hello all. I've wanted to do something for the football community here on Twoplustwo. I'm very lucky that football has been a mainstay in my life for as long as it has and I feel that with this being the case I can occasionally give out some information that otherwise may not be available. I originally was going to do a AFC power rankings ala Pokerfink's rankings from back when, but I would have done it after viewing the All-22 tape of each team. Unfortunately due to the cost of the All-22 and time constraints that would have been impossible.

So instead I thought...what is the one thing all NFL fans want information on but don't have a ton of options in getting good information. The draft has to be very high on that list. I did 4 "scouting" reports on players for the last draft: Coples ; Mercilus ; Kalil ; Brockers

I'd like to try and get 2 a month that can be discussed here at length and we can use this space to compare them and maybe try to get some advanced thinking going on with technique and evaluation. This is not a thread for determining what team should select him or the personal lives of these players. Before I post my "resume" I want to look at a certain comment from another mod.

And he is 100% correct. I do not know what I am talking about and I am awful at evaluations. So if you are coming to criticize me or, as many other have told me in the past, tell me that I'm not a professional scout and that I'm just trying to boost my own ego, this is not the place for that either. You can freely tell me how you feel about me in PMs.

My "resume" beyond HS:
04-05 Played DE at Mars Hill College(D-II)
05-07 Played OG at Kutztown University (D-II)
07-09 Football Assistant Kutztown University OL/Recruiting (D-II)
09 HS Freshman Football Coach Offensive Coordinator
10-11 Coastal Carolina Graduate Assistant DL/Co-Recruiting Coordinator (D-1AA)
11-present High School Football Coach DL/OL (Back to Back to Back State Champion)

Please just understand that I am putting that there to let those that do not know who I am to know that there is some credibility behind my comments. Though very little.

Onto the thread itself. I will be doing the scouting report of the player. I will mostly be looking at trench players. DL/OL. I will likely comment on each position out there overtime.

The idea is for me to put out what I see. I'll put Negatives and Positives of the player. We will then discuss the player, I would like to hear what other people see, if they agree/disagree, what type of schemes can the player succeed in, can the player improve, will he transition to the NFL level, ect. I really want to avoid fluff.

Anyway, the first player I will be doing a report on is Utah's Star Lotulelei, Nose Tackle.

Star Lotulelei 6’3 320 4.98 Utah





This will be the first video we will look at. There will be time stamps so that you can follow along.

So what do I look for when evaluating a NT? I want to see his get off. Does he come off quick? Does he shoot his hands? Does he maintain balance? Can he take on 2 blockers? How effective is he in the pass game? How are his power moves? And most importantly, how is his footwork?

Reminder. First tape is 2011. He was voted as the most difficult player to block by Pac-12 OL this year.

Utah vs Colorado 2011

First three plays: I’m seeing a player with a tremendous first step off the ball. These are quick passes and there isn’t a whole lot a DT can do on these. But looking at his hand placement, he is getting inside, he is able to drive the OL back, on the 3rd play he recognizes a quick 5 step and screen play. This is rather high level thought process out of a young player and he is anticipating a chance to get a tackle for a loss.

0:28: First negative, he drops his head on his first step. That’s a big red flag. Players that drop their heads on contact are first and foremost injury risks and needless to say, you can’t engage what you can’t see. With that said, he recognizes zone left. And he just rides his OL down the line. This is a very good play and gets a positive overall for the down.

0:36: Pure power rush. Wow

0:50: It’s a non play but you see his motor in attacking the PA player.

1:12: Bull rush. Legs are underneath him. He drives his OL back. This is a strong play as it takes away the interior of the pocket. This is a deadly play from a interior DL.

1:40: Another Bull rush. His strength is most definitely power moves. This OL can’t sit down in the bull because of how powerful Star is. Just watch his legs go under him. He is in full control and won’t get rid of the OL until the player behind him has decided where he is going(whether it’s the QB or RB).

OK…at the end of the first quarter I’m super impressed by his pass rushing. He is not fancy. He is not trying to beat the offensive player by dekeing, using double moves, clubbing, or ripping. He has a single gap assignment and in that assignment he also has a straight pocket destroying responsibility too. We see in those last two plays of the 1st quarter a player that is using pure power. In a bulrush two things are important. Hand placement and balance. He wins the hand battle each time by getting his hands inside the guards. And has near perfect leg drive. He keeps his chest forward, doesn’t allow for the OL to sink due to his drive and if the OL begins to lean on him, instant snatch(throwing the OL away).

2:27: It’s the second time in the game he has been cut. I’m not gonna kill a player for that but, this is something that becomes unacceptable after getting cut twice. He needs to recognize the cut and get his hands on the OL’s shoulder pads. At that point he controls that player and can avoid and continue on path. We’ll see if this happens again. This is happening due to his great burst off the ball but you do have to be under control coming off the ball.

2:50: Ugh, ok here is an ugly play. He is attempting to shoot a gap. He gets caught in a slide protection. So instead of staying on path and trying to play it out. He bails out and spins. This is in hopes that he can catch the center cheating and get by. Let me tell you, college players aren’t gonna get caught by this, and I’m gonna assume that NFL players aren’t either.

2:58: Drops his head on contact again.

3:10: ERMAGERD Get off.

3:38: Another negative play on my grade. They get a shift from the LBs, looks like a heavy check of some sort so they move to not be outflanked. He shoots up field and then pivots and goes for the spin. If instead he shoots upfield and rips across the OL’s face, he gets a TFL. But because he spins he isn’t in position and didn’t see the RB…so it is not a TFL, but instead a gain.

4:00: Getoff. Upfield bull rush.

4:40: Watch the last few plays. Man…I tell you his getoff is absurd. For an interior player he is moving faster than the OL is in front of him. This causes pressure up the middle and the QB has to bail. A tremendous play.

5:15: Ugh. He has looked solid on plays than this play is all-time bad. Gives up on his rush for the bat down. Ok so he takes away a passing lane, but still rather see him attempting to pressure. Well the DBs behind him are doing their job and he sees the QB bailing out of the pocket. So here comes his 2nd rush. Gets the QB dead to rights, all he needs to do is breakdown. Runs right by.

6:00: Watch this play. Get off. A+. Goes to hand fight aka getting the OL’s hands off of him. A+. Offbalance OL leads to a pure bull rush lane. A+. Bowls over the OL and gets a sack. A+.

6:20: We get to see a true play of his in the run game. He is attacking a gap. With that he just dips under the scoop block from the guard. Pure penetration and disrupts the play in the backfield.

6:50: Ultimately this is a bad play due to the very awful facemask. But lets look at the positives. He plays this perfectly. It’s a zone right. He is not even supposed to be close to the play. He should get cutoff by the backside tackle. But his technique is flawless. He attacks half the man in front of him and recognizes immediately a zone play. You are taught that during a zone play you ride the ass cheek of the OL. He does this and gets himself into position to make a TFL. But due to his lack of break down ability and is playing out of control in the backfield, he should have been flagged. This is the second time we have seen him out of control in the backfield.

End of game: There really wasn’t too much for me to comment on at certain times. I’ll say this, by far his biggest strengths is his legs. He gets off the ball at a Dwight Freeney speed. Its unreal. I haven’t see a player with that type of knack in a while. And he knows what to do once he gets into an OL. His bull rush is an utter elite level. There are a few negatives. Secondary moves? He has spun but that’s a terrible thing to do inside and really overall is bad outside of the super mega elite speed rushers that can set it up perfectly. He plays a bit out of control. He needs to slow his body down in the open field. You can’t play with your legs in once place and your upperbody in another. But lets get to the second video before going further with this.

Utah vs USC 2012

I’m very interested in this game. It’s a year later. Let’s see if Star has a couple more moves in his repertoire and shows some two gapping.

0:34: First few plays are rather uneventful. He isn’t super quick off the ball and isn’t showing me much. Then this play happens. He sees the center wince and on that he is immediately attacking him. Unreal job by him on this play.

0:57: This is a play he is supposed to be trapped on and open up the hole. He gets his hands on the down block and because of how close he is and his technique is amazing, he gets a chance at a TFL. His hands shoot straight at the shoulder pads on the down block(this helps take the OL off path and position yourself) he gets his legs under him and across the line. And due to him knowing he must control the gap he doesn’t run upfield like a maniac like he did in the CU game a year ago.

1:32: He has shown such tremendous play against the zone block. On a zone block you are taught to ride it out and make the RB cut inside to a LB. Just never give up your outside shoulder. Star does even more. He rides the OL down the line to the point where the OL can’t block him anymore and the lead seal blocker has to take Star on. At this point you can’t block star with a seal player. He gets off that second block with utter ease due to his positioning already on the field(a seal player isn’t expecting a player at the LOS let alone behind it). His game speed is terrific. For a 320 player he should not be moving at that speed.

2:12: This is an interesting play. Probably graded bad for his not splitting the double on his rush. But he gets the kings treatment here by the auto double team despite it being a zone PA left boot right play. Star doesn’t attempt to split it and rather backs off. This is likely a negative as its desperate to get pressure with as few players as possible and his continuous backing off hurts those in coverage. It works to his benefit as the mesh player runs into him. I don’t like that kind of play though.

2:40: Drops head on contact again. UGHHHH STOP DOING THIS.

2:49: There’s that get off we got used too.

3:07: Guesses to a side and gets it wrong and gets walled off. Looks like he is pressing a little bit now.

3:38: I’m definitely seeing a player guessing. He isn’t truly gapping now. He is picking a side and going hard. And the RB is doing a great job of reading his OL and the OL rides him down. Star needs to engage and read rather than guess. There isn’t an LB shooting the other gap or engaging. So I know for a fact he is wrong on this.

3:47: Great view of his getoff and hand placement. The placement is flawless. He is just a touch slow reading the play. The OG goes to wash him down and then moves up to the LB that would fill the hole. It’s a good play by that OG but if Star reads it right it’s a TFL. OG shouldn’t have given up on Star so quickly. (PSA: I believe it’s a zone cutback by how the OG blocks on the play. Jesse Palmer is wrong.)

8:00 in 2nd Quarter: Just a note. I still haven’t seen him use a secondary move on a pass rush. It’s been attack the point, bull rush, and bail. This has to be a large question mark. You have to have secondary moves, even on the interior. I don’t expect him to be a deadly pass rusher. But I hate him bailing on plays and do want to see a bit more.

5:29: Yeah I’ve gone a bit of video without typing up anything. A couple of reasons. We see a lot of the same positives I have noted. He has gotten off the ball very well and gets his hands inside. He is consistently winning on hand placement. In both games this has been a huge positive. We will see what the 2ndhalf has to offer.

6:00: Just watch. LOL. Can’t believe he would even attempt to engage that second player. LB should have read it better.

6:21: Oh man, get off/bull rush. Nice…

6:43: Hey, looks look back at something I said before. He got cut twice. Here is a play a cut block comes at him. Shoots his hands, controls the OG, and guess what? He can run down the line and take away a cutback play. This play gets a star and is shown on the DL highlight film on Monday.

6:48: Bailout.

7:04: Again, hand placement, again bull rush. Again leg drive. Again in the backfield. Just needed one more step to blow it up. But can’t blame him for it. His abilities on this play and the one I commented on 2 plays ago really highlight this players ceiling.

8:14: I know another minute plus went by. I’m just not seeing anything really notable. I’m wondering if he has tired out a bit. He has been seeing a lot of double teams and has been on the field for what eems every single defensive play. That is a ton to ask for out of 320 player on the inside. With that said…it does not excuse this play. Another spin move that goes nowhere. Its lazy and it seems to come when he is desperate and tired. This needs to be corrected.

8:31: He has some quit in him. Turns his body. Doesn’t stay balanced. Ugh.

Let’s go into the positive/negative.

Positive: Read a few of my comments and this should be easy. Speed off the ball. Its incredible. He can shoot gaps at a high level and disrupt plays up the middle off of his speed. This has to be the single most impressive thing a player can do. His leg drive and bull rush. This goes hand in hand. He can bull rush even with another player hanging on his shoulder. But once he gets going the OG can’t sink. If he tries too he has to lean and with that Star can snatch him. These are two things that will most definitely translate very well into the NFL. Also he knows how to keep his outside shoulder free on zone runs and is deadly to block on these. Which can also be a very elite skill at the next level.

Negatives: Pass rush. Yes his bull rush is a high level one. But there is no secondary move. There is no rip. There is no upfield attack of an outside shoulder. There is no upfield to inside attacks. Its pure hands on speed rush. Now, in fairness, this could very well be that Utah is limiting him. He doesn’t have free reign. His motor is meh. He shows a small mean streak early on in the CU game but there is no more of that in either game. He bails out on pass rushes. He spins when he should be continuing to attack. Really needs to work on pushing forward even after being stymied.

So…here we are. Our first player done. There are two more youtubes we can look at later on. But I wanted to start with just two tapes. He is a highly valued prospect.

OK SE. Lets go.

I was just thinking that maybe this thread could use a little push at the start. I first want to state that no matter your level of football understanding I WANT TO HEAR YOUR OPINIONS. This thread is not for judgement on other posters. This is a thread for us to learn, including myself. Very rarely, I feel, fans get to break down players. Well here is our chance to break down specific players.

My first question out there. Watching these two tapes. Can Lotulelei be an NFL rarity as a 2 gapper? We have seen the 2 gapping players disappear from the NFL. Is this the next true 2 gapper in the NFL? Why or why not?

Cool idea, hope this gets a ton of interest.

Excited for this thread.

Needle, you say that 2 gappers are disappearing from the NFL- Who are some of the few ones left? Ngata, Casey Hampton, V. Wilfork, etc? I would think that with the rising popularity (it seems) with the 3-4, a true NT would be MORE in demand. Now, I can understand the rarity of a true NT being abundant every draft (6'3+ 330+ guys who can move quickly don't grow on trees).

I don't think Ngata is a two gapper, especially since Baltimore uses so many 4-3 fronts. They kind of move him around as needed.

few true nts can play on passing downs so they lose a ton of value in the current nfl. "the nt is the most important position in the 3-4" canard you hear all the time was possibly true 30-40 years ago but isn't close to correct now. if you are on the bench in nickel you are fungible.

obviously 2 gappers that can get after the qb can still be very valuable.

Over the past few years I've been watching NT and 2 technique in the NFL. I've been very curious to see if they were playing two gaps or if they were cheating to gaps. Between my work and my sit down with the Jets coaches over the summer, I can most definitely say that 2 gapping players are fairly dead. Even for 3-4 teams.

The NT is cheating into gaps, he is engaging but not attempting to take on two players but instead he taking on half of a man to cheat towards a gap. The idea behind keeping blockers off the LBs, which was the original intent of the 3-4 to stop the run, is one of the past. Each player is responsible for his gap from your DL to your LBs. Watch JJ Watt play. There is no way anyone can say he is a 2 gap DE in a 3-4. He is a pure pass rushing DE that has outside gap to inside gap play.

Ngata and Rubin were some of the last true 2 gap players I have watched. Due to Baltimore's weakness at the LB position though they have switched to a more base 4-3. Ngata I believe can still two gap but isn't asked too anymore.(yes this that stupid McHale issue except Ngata did show 2 gapping at some point in his career).

A 2 gapping player that can also destroy the pocket is beyond valuable. You are talking Revis style impact. If Lotulelei can show more pass rush moves and can continue to have his first step be at the level it is, we could be talking about the single best defensive player to come out of college in years. But, let me not get ahead of myself on that.

I would like for people to watch at least one of the videos and give some insight if they think he can 2 gap. We will get to one of the two other videos in the next few days.

Will you take requests? (Meaningful players only obviously)

Also, can you talk about Kalil's performance so far this year and how it reflects your scouting report?

Unfortunately I'm limited to what players have youtube videos. And they should have 2+ videos for us to look at them closely. I tried to do the requests thing during the draft and it ended up poorly due to lack of film or even at that, good film. I usually pick a player, watch a few videos. See how I feel about it, then do a writeup.

Also, I don't want this to turn into, "I like this player, can you look at him too?" as that is tremendously time consuming. For now I'm going to take the top players that have videos and look at those guys closely. Maybe when we get closer to the draft I can do quick writeups on specific players. I really only want to look at 2-3 players a month.

We will not be looking at those currently in the NFL. If I am going to give information I want everyone to be able to look at the same thing I am looking at. That and I am not qualified to look at NCAA play let alone NFL.

Don't let Phildo get you down Needle

I take no offense to what Phildo and others have told me. Just covering myself as I do not want to come off as pompous nor as someone that pretends to know more than they actually do. Either way, I prefer to not have low content stuff in this thread. If there is anything you wish to discuss further PM's would be the place.

This is true. I wanna see a Jarvis Jones one

Jones is a RS Junior. There aren't any available tapes on him.

What kind of attributes would one look into?

Other than the obvious "taking on 2 blockers", which other characteristics would you rate highly?

Every single Michigan game is on youtube so you're going to have to do Taylor Lewan.

Well...I did just do about 2 hours worth of work on what I saw on a play by play basis for a NT so that would be the first place I would look.

A non-condescending answer would be that I'm looking for a player that is continuously getting penetration and pressure. I want to see stalemates on double teams. Taking on a double team doesn't mean you beat it to make a tackle. It means you are taking up two blockers and a LB is able to run free as you are causing a stalemate at the line of scrimmage and keeping the levels free(as in not being knocked back into the LBs path why he is trying to fill a hole).

In the pass rush game I want to see power moves and the ability to destroy the pocket from the interior. Sacks are a positive but not a necessity. Tackles are nice but also not needed. I just want to see a disruptive player that controls the gap he is meant to control. I also don't want to see on the ticker 1st and 2nd down each time. He must be on the field for 3rd downs as well.

Down and distance is an important thing to look at when doing this. Does he play differently on 1st and 10 than he does on 3rd and 12 or 2nd and 3? Is he pinning is ears back and playing out of control on 3rd and long?


Again another RS Jr. But Meta and Jmpasq both have a tape of him(Illinois last year and ND this year) so he has more potential. Again though. This isn't really a "I want you to look at my favorite player." I don't think taking "requests" is in my best interest for this.

Just wanted to say thank you for the writeup Needle, I'm very interested in line play. but don't really know how to evaluate it at all. I appreciate the scouting angle a lot.

Manti Teo!

very interested in what you've done so far...thanks for the effort.
i'm curious about ASU's DT Will Sutton. Many have said he's the best defensive player in the P12 to date (leads the conference in sacks and tfl), but obv. the injury in the Oregon game has hampered him a bit. He's a RS JR, and i'm guessing he'll test the draft waters.

The NFL All-22 is cost prohibitive? It's $70. Obviously it's very time-consuming to go through all of it, and I get the other reasons for not using it, but it's a pretty good deal IMO.

Needle,

Great thread. I always enjoy reading thoughts from people who show they do their own work. (My own thoughts that except for Kiper, everyone just recycles what everyone else says, and it starts with Kiper)

I already created a prospect thread for the upcoming draft class a few weeks ago. Maybe you would want to merge the threads? Just a thought


EDIT: Here's the thread

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/46...watch-1261314/

Yes, I saw that thread. But I do feel that this thread has a much more in-depth premise to it than the draft thread. The idea behind this one is no fluff, no discussion of what team should take a player, ect. The discussion is solely about the players looked at rather than the draft itself.

I'll try to do another tape on Star either later tonight if I do not go out or tomorrow evening before the SNF game.