That's an incredibly broad statement. "high school students have the potential to crush it as astronauts, just look at Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, they went to high school." Cool story bro. I mean you're suffering from an incredible amount of selection bias here. College and NFL coaching jobs, especially head coaching jobs, are just totally different animals. Even being an elite college coordinator is not a good indicator for success as a head coach.

List, lol.

ok, his itemized grouping

You don't think it shows his lack of earlier success was likely a lol sample size issue?

*this dude's a bad nfl coach but will crush in college
*this dude is a great nfl coach having some bad luck, but you can swoop in and steal him to crush college

Are you saying your current nominee is the latter case? If not, yes it totally invalidates the example.

Yeah, you're right. Michigan obviously should be there.

If he's 3-5 in conference and beats Bama I agree

Bowden and Tuberville both coached them to undefeated seasons before Chizik was a blip on the radar and both were fired within 5 years or so. Expectations have been high at Auburn for a while and they're particularly high now.

That said I don't think Malzahn is in danger right now. If he lays an egg next year though...

Well let's just, for ****s and giggles, take out the guy who did it during the Reagan administration (that's Lou Holtz, dk) and I've covered Carrol. Saban was already firmly established as a top college coach for a decade turning around 2 programs and winning a natty plus handing Les Miles another one before trying the nfl for a couple seasons. Unless we're talking about someone who has that sort of resume from prior recent college head coaching (think Chip Kelley if he had gone to Iowa and won a natty or 2 first), then it's obviously impossibly reductive to think "mediocre nfl" is the important part of the comparison.

These weren't just his examples--these were his answer! The q was why this guy should get picked up by a college team. A: Nick Saban & Lou Holtz. (Carrol slightly less laughable)

It's a poor answer, but maybe he has a better one. WTF does he like about this actual guy?

Ummmm, wat?

Becoming an NFL head coach is the pinnacle of the football profession. Yeah there are exceptions, but by in large the finest football minds rise to coach in the NFL. Generally, if someone coaches in the NFL--even if they produce mixed results--this is indicative that they know "a lot" about football. So this would indicate that they have, all things being equal, a strong chance to succeed in the college ranks compared to someone without NFL head coaching experience.

Your high school/Astronaut comparison sucks. Being an NFL head coach provides lots of specialized knowledge that helps enable success as a college head coach. On the other hand, high school provides almost zero specialized knowledge that helps someone become a successful astronaut.

I'm guessing you didn't exactly knock the analogy portion of the SATs out of the park back in the day, did you?

Might be SEC bias, but I got Holliday crushing Dvo here. Interested in others' perspective tho

Hey look what's on the internet:

12 Successful College Coaches Who Were Busts in the NFL

Can't wait til Bama and Notre Dame play again just to see pvn and bigdaddy go at it.

What a strange argument. Hire a mediocre NFL coach because he will crush in college. I don't even

Other than Petrino, Holtz, & Carrol, list is all highly successful college coaches who went to nfl, some of whom later came back to college successfully (uh...one of these guys was from the 40s?). You are talking about an NFL coach without college head coaching/recruiting/development experience being a solid pickup as a college head coach...right now.

Petrino is an interesting example because, more than anything, "offensive/playcalling genius" was his primary attribute. Is there anything like that to be said about...what's-his-name, Titans guy?

Check his wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Wh...#Coaching_tree

Like I said, I loved him as the Steelers offensive coordinator for 3 years under Cowher. His game plan vs. Peyton Manning and the Colts in the '06 playoffs was a thing of genius.

Let the AZ Cardinals to the Super Bowl where he lost to Pittsburgh (AZ put up a ton of points that year). I happen to think he's a terrific coach constrained by a rookie QB and a generally terrible personnel situation in Tennessee. He developed Todd Haley who is now Pittsburgh's offensive coordinator--a Steelers team that (when healthy) has put up huge numbers. BLUF: he's an offensive guru that I think would do fantastic in college.

Yeah, that 9-7 Arizona Cardinals team was the biggest fluke Conference Champion ever. 10-6 the next year with a WC win.

Then 5-11, 8-8, 5-11 and fired. Arizona clearly knew this guy's value.

He hasn't been in the college game since 1996 with Vanderbilt as an assistant, and you're arguing he'll just be a top 10ish college coach no problem??

Whisenhunt's accomplishments in 8 seasons as a head coach:

1. Being on the right side of variance and having Warner, Fitzgerald, Boldin on his side in the 2008 playoffs.

2. ?


The 2008 Cardinals may have been the worst team to ever make it to the Super Bowl even though their offense should have been prolific. They won the NFC West at 9-7. The rest of the division went 13-35. Arizona had a +1 point differential and was ranked 21st in DVOA.

In the playoffs they got a home game in round 1 by virtue of winning their craptastic division.

Round 2 they upset the JAKE DELHOMME led Panthers.

NFC Championship they luckboxed into facing the #6 seed Eagles who took out the #1 Giants for them. Even though Arizona was at home they were a 4 point dog. Their luck obviously ran out in the Super Bowl.

Whisenhunt is 52-71 over a large sample at two different stops in the NFL. This isn't a Pete Carroll situation where he achieved decent results over a small sample. He failed over a long period of time and most recently failed spectacularly in Tennessee.

He might be a good coordinator. But nothing in his head coaching resume indicates he would be a good hire for any major college program.

So in your opinion, Chuck Pagano is at the pinnacle of football knowledge? Jim Caldwell? Pat Shurmur? Intellectual giants, all of them! I mean we're literally talking about guys who don't know how to use ****ing timeouts, much less when to go for it on fourth down. Your argument here is basically "RANGS THO" except instead of rangz its jobz. They have the job, therefore genius.

In any case, you're absolutely 100% missing that there is in fact a huge, huge differnce in how college teams and NFL teams are run. College coaches have to worry about recruiting. NFL coaches don't. NFL coaches, in fact, don't really have much control over personnel at all (in the general case - obviously some coaches like BB will have more influence here than others). NFL coaches have a whole backoffice and a GM they have to answer to, etc. A college coach, on the other hand, is much more of a CEO. He has to manage the whole program. Yeah, there's a AD, but those guys are generally more like chairmen of the board and don't get too heavily involved in day to day operations.

ANd the analogy holds. You haven't provided any indication of what the "specialized knowledge" is that NFL coaches magically get that is BOTH 1) not granted to the other, dumber coaches and 2) actually relevant to succeeding as a college HC. Once you can do those things, then you can lol about analogies, but not before.

Given your theory, please explain, oh, say, CHARLIE WEIS. Dude was a NFL coach, right? Shudda crushed college with his DECIDED SCHEMATIC ADVANTAGE, what went wrong IYO???

Yeah. I mean all you had to do was post "Recruiting" pvn but yes.

Do you think this bolsters your argument? Or do you think it just exposes the fact that you don't understand the difference between the converse and the contrapositive?

Boom.

Bigdaddy,

simple question: would you trade brian kelly for whisenhunt, and why?

From memory:

Take a conditional proposition "If p, then q"
The converse is "If q, then p"
The inverse is "If not p, then not q"
The contrapositive is "If not q, then not p"

The original conditional and the contrapositive are logically equivalent. The inverse and converse are also logically equivalent.

Any other questions?

Trade, no. BK is a very good college football coach (albeit not elite like Saban/Meyer/Harbaugh), and it's foolish to change out absent a clear upgrade. Still, I'd be reasonably happy with KW replacing Kelly were BK to leave ND for the Giants at the end of the season.

This list really stretches the definition of bust. Harbaugh may have rubbed players the wrong way, but he is gone because of his owner. Petrino is an *******, but can you really even make a meaningful evaluation on his short tenure?

I feel like I can pick any defining trait for a coach and find 12 cases to fit that example, because gosh, most coaches end up not working out.