I actually agree with the last two. EPM is probably my favorite catch-all stat after RPM changed their formulas, and here are their league-wide ranks this year:

Ayton (22) - 48th
Booker (24) - 107th

Obviously these aren't the gospel, but it does show just how far any of their non-CP3s are from being top 10, let alone top 5 players. Playoff-wise, Booker and Ayton have been sporting BPMs of +.4 and +3.6 with TS%s of .567 and .701. Those are good but not great numbers, but perfectly fine for top 30-50 players, which is where I see them about now.

Bridges ranks 54th and Cam Johnson 176th btw, and both also 24. We aren't talking about 21 year olds here, they were drafted much older and therefore are getting close to their peak seasons. Anyway I think their young core would have to improve at outlier levels to compete for titles sans CP3. It's doable, but we're talking about Steph/Draymond/Klay levels of improvement they'd probably have to reach.

counterpoint:

Nigeria one of the worst teams in the Olympics.

No Nigeria player played more than half the game. Fresh bodies constantly.

Yes luxury tax payments will definitely have to be made here in Phoenix

Yeah by worst odds ever are we still talking about the suns opening at 8/1 to win a the chip or something? Who do you put ahead of them right now? Nets/Lakers (ehhhh) / ???? I bet they open up as 3rd or 4th favorites to win the title next year but then the public money will start to skew it hard obviously

Much more interested to see what Ayton's playoff LEBRON and EPM are than his reg season one.

Booker has always been a bit of an enigma impact metric wise his defense stuff always brings him down big time. I think they overstate his bad defense at this stage but the general public has also overcorrected on this idea that "he's not a bad defender anymore" he's still bad and teams target him all the time.

Someone was trashing jrue up above. By EPM he's basically the best not number one guy in the league.

Jrue is really good. It's just milwaukee needs more offensive firepower and creativity from a guard than he can provide. I think Jrue is a better player than Jamal Murray but I also think Milwaukee would be considerably better off with Murray over Jrue.

I for the record still probably favor LEBRON over EPM. Both are reputable. EPMs box score prior is not released publicly which makes it a black box guessing game. Im pretty sure EPM does not incorporate size into their defensive box score prior which can lead to some wild results. It's why so many guards/wings rank so absurdly high in DEPM. Have also been told by someone who knows its creator Taylor Snarr that it generally doesnt weigh on/off data as much as other models like LEBRON.

LEBRON has its issues(ie overcorrects on the position thing with defense bigs are inflated, co-linearity issues with on/off) but I find it easier to adjust and work around those biases when evaluating their data accordingly.

Jrue is really good but in a 30 team league the Bucks are probably pretty close to his best fit. New Orleans with AD is up there as well besides the fact the rest of their team sucked.

He isn't gonna be the #2 guard on many teams (and if he is, how well does he play with the 1 and who is even the 3rd best player on this team?) so his ideal role is being the lead guard on a team with a dominant big.

If you try to find Jrue trades for comparable players to put him into a better bball situation, I think you will realize that will be a struggle.

Denver is worse with Jrue than Murray imo

Yeah LEBRON Is probably the better catch-all, and I agree with a lot of what you say about Jrue.

Interesting you bring up Murray again, I've been having a similar discussion with a friend wrt his value in the playoffs. I suspect Devin Booker gets a similar playoff jump as well due to their abilities to create reasonably efficient offense in a multitude of ways.

And while he's been brought up, I think Jamal >> Booker and = Mitchell and will fight anyone about it. He's been better in both regular and post-seasons at a younger age.

Oh good, Scott Foster tonight.

come on suns lets go man, ez money on them

Oh yeah Im not there at that level with Murray but to each their own. I know that's your guy hope he comes back better than ever from the ACL. Think its 1) Booker 2) Mitchell 3) Murray for me. Playoff Mitchell is very interesting his 2 series vs Hou are absolutely horrible and his other series he's balled out. His pull up 3 point shooting in the playoffs is alot higher than the reg season. Still think its largely just noise but if he keeps it up and the sample size increases its something to watch.

Think Id rather get the Scott Foster game out of the way tonight if Im Phoenix. This is the type of game I definitely felt like Mil was going to get tonight anyway, at home down 2-0 tough spot for a road team when a good team like Mil is basically playing for their season on the line. If Im a Suns fan I dont want Foster reffing a game where there are significant consequences if I lose; losing tonight would not qualify as such for Phx their outlook doesnt change that much if they do.

Suns in 4.

Everybody slam the door.

On the Bucks’ lore.

prefer suns in 7, i want more basketball

Oh I never thought hte Bucks with Jrue was a great fit it any role which has the description "lead" with him is not how you are going to maximize him. The reason why he ranks so well in impact metrics is

a) he's a pretty good scaleable offensive player. I dont think the Bucks are a great fit for him but there is no real truly bad fit with him per se. Wont take anything off the table complements talent well.

b) He's a top defender so you combine a good offensive player who some nights can be awesome and give you like 26/6 with a top tier defensive player he'll rank high. The defensive value will always elevate players more than we think with these things.

The key is you cant be reliant per se on his offense every night especially as a perimeter creator. Ex of teams he would be good for: Dal, GSW, Phx, Port(I mean offensively for these two would be a small defense), Atl, Wash, Den. Again the nights he can bring it offensively great he can have an expanded role on any of these teams but they arent dependent on him to do it when he doesnt. And for all of these teams a big part of his value is being a 2 way wing, most of these teams badly need that in some capacity. With a team like Mil who's defense was fine already, it's just not as much value added as elsewhere

Again key idea is PERIMETER creator, he cant be the no 1 guy you turn to to initiate sets, be your best passer, be your no 1 pick and roll operator etc. Also these are very much issues at title contention level consideration. Like Jrue in Chicago you would see some of these same issues but if he were available I would trade for him in 2 sec if I were Chicago because they arent a a title or bust type team and hence would still help them alot.

Almost G3 time folks.

So he would be good on 50 win type teams (Suns, Blazers, Mavs) if you just straight added him to their team? I mean, I'd hope so. That is kinda the point. Guy makes like 80% of the max.

In a 30 team league if he is your #2 guard then you probably either A. don't have a legit big or B. are just a top tier team where he is the 3rd best player

Any team he is your #3 with a top 5-10 guy is gonna be good.

If that's a foul on Crowder they should shut the whole league down

Edit: "it was very close to a charge" GTFOH

Doubt Suns win this game as winning game 3 up 2-0 is really hard but nice start for them, atleast make the Bucks earn it...So many teams just can't match intensity and get killed in this spot

Someone is going to pay Payne to be a starter next year aren't they?

You guys say a lot of stuff

"Giannis draws the foul"

Drink! See if you can make it to the 4th quarter

Homerism is all good ec!

He's what makes the Simpsons great and they've been on TV for 32 seasons!