If it helps any, I don't care about you or your posts.

That is a very Fun fact! Thanks for sharing!

I don't think it was an egregious take when said it either (probably like a month or two ago?)

Those + AD are clearly the top 10 players in the league and Jokic took his game to a different level this season. But it was still the regular season, having behind 8 of those guys may have been a bit low but I don't think he was a slam dunk over them at that exact time.

Obviously context is important, he's probably the worst defensive player on that list against good teams in the playoffs as guards can be easier to hide+have less value over replacement anyway. This stuff is so fluid, we can only judge these guys in real time on the exact time they are on at that time, etc

Right now he basically just looks like a prime Larry Bird and BBall is a joke to him but if AD outplays him in 2 weeks, don't think anyone gonna be OMG shocked. The top 10 right now is better than at any time in the LeBron era at the least.

I think Jokic is if you crossed Prime Dirk with Prime Arvydas Sabonis.

I wonder if the Hawks tweak their rotations a little bit - seems like moving either Hunter or Collins to coming off of bench might balance things a little better and not have only shooters on the bench. Collins having no impact in G2 will probably get some attention.

Trae just needs to play more, maybe 38+10 split w/ Lou rather than 34/14. Trae plays a pretty easy game out there too, doesn't seem like he's working too hard. He should be able to go more mins.

I would stagger Bog with the 2nd unit, their 2nd unit got killed in NY. Especially if Bog is gonna be as aggressive as he's been offensively, let him get that usage on the 2nd unit.

They should shoot the ball much better than the 1st 2 games though, Knicks really didn't do a whole lot to discourage them from getting good looks. They just went ice cold down the stretch in gm 2 in a game the Knicks made every adjustment they needed to win and Hawks sense of urgency was clearly lacking.

I just think Bogi plays off the p&r game pretty with Trae and Capela.

Also, no idea what happened to Chris Dunn...seems like perfect usage for him would be coming in fresh covering Rose for a few minutes - but he has vanished.

We're all on board with the "Trey is balding" chants though right?

I would agree with this comparison if AD outplayed Joker while missing Lebron, however comparing performances when one player is missing his #2 and the other's #2 is potentially the greatest player of all time seems a bit weird to me.

Of those in the top 5, none of them have carried a team to this much success (2nd best record the last three years, second most playoff rounds won) without an elite #2. The only one that has come close is Lebron in 2015, and his teammate injuries didn't come until late in the playoffs.

We can argue about it he's less of a ceiling-raiser than say AD or KD, but that's all speculation because he's never had the type of stars around him, nor has he tried to position himself in that manner yet. The one thing we can't argue is what he's done with the least talent, and in that regard he's clearly at least #2 behind Bron in the modern era.

A Bird/Dirk hybrid with all time level playmaking skills, bball IQ dripping out the wazoo, the best hands in the league and we're here questioning whether or not he's a top 5 player? Make it make sense to me.

The dude is the most complete offensive player in the league today. Single coverage or doubles pick your poison he will destroy you in any which way.

I don't know why anyone would bring up Jokic's '19 and '20 when talking about how it is crazy to not have him top 8 though.

The entire reason it would be too low is based on how he has played this year, this year is a new level of play for him.

Before this year, pretty much everyone would've had Jokic in the 7-11ish range. So Dunc'd on was a few months late but not like they had Pandemic P over him (i'll give that ep a listen to see their reasoning I suppose)

Other than saying prime/healthy Bron is #1, I think all of these other guys are fairly close.


One of the reasons it is hard to rank where Jokic fits is because there really hasn't been anyone like him ever. A dominant big who is the GOAT passer for making teammates better but at the same time is perhaps a liability defensively against the best teams in the league (this is pretty era dependent obviously where slow footed bigs have more issues with PnR D than past eras)

I thought after 2018-19 I had him as "top 10 guy in the regular season, top 3-5 in the playoffs"

He was the best player that year in the postseason (arguably, top 2 at worst), but Lebron/AD/KD didn't play The following year he was the second or third best player in the playoffs, only behind AD/Bron and ahead of Kawhi. I think going into this year he was pretty lock-ish top 5 overall, but could very well fall off in the regular season after so little rest.

The opposite happened though--he not only carried his playoff-level play over, but exceeded it, and has up until now hit another level in the playoffs.

He's been the best player over the last 3 years as a whole both in the regular and post-season, but that's more due to attrition than peaks. He hasn't had that championship run that Kawhi(luck) or Lebron/AD have, but he also hasn't had nearly the level of a team around him. That really is the only thing separating him from the KD/AD's of the world at this point imo. For that reason alone, I could put him in their tier but not below. (lol Harden)

1. Lebron

2-6 - Kawhi/AD/Steph/Giannis/Jokic in any order.

I think next year there is a very real possibility that the torch is handed to him as the BPiTL though.

Him or Giannis that is, maybe even Luka.

I got Luka in the bottom of the 2-6 range. Kawhi, nope. He's in the bottom of 7-10.

I realize I'm in the minority and won't win this argument but I have him close to Embiid. That's more me being low on Embiid than high on AD though. Got Jokic both of them though. Also taking Jokic over Giannis and 2021 LeBron so for me Jokic is comfortably in that first tier. I also have Luka > Harden so :shrug:

I won't win this argument either but I'd take AD over Curry/Harden if I had to start a team, you can find shot creation/scoring easier than you can find what AD does. Probably KD as well. Maybe they can carry teams better but when I make my list, I'm usually thinking in terms of building championship teams rather than just pure WAR/VORP type stuff.

KD by virtue of being on the most talented team in the league the past 4 years as well as being on talented teams pretty much his entire career has never had the type of egg on his face that a lot of these other guys have though. But he is similar to Kawhi in that he is a great scorer but doesn't really make his teammates better.

When AD is at his peak defensively he is an ELITE GAME CHANGER. That's without question. He's also a big with guard skills!

He just needs a guy in his ear to bring the EYE OF THE TIGER out in him.

Derrick Rose AND Taj Gibson in the STARTING LINEUP tonight for the KNICKS!!!!

That ELF has been PUT ON A SHELF!!!!

DeVincenzo out for rest of playoffs, damn sucks

that seems like a pretty legit loss for playing against the nets

forbes/connaughton on the court 30 more minutes vs kyrie/harden?

Harden > Jokic c'mon dood.

Admittedly Jokic took it up a level this year.

Jokic led all players in BPM in the 18-19 playoffs, though his team bounced out in the second round. Just as Giannis led all players in BPM during the 19-20 playoffs while his team bounced out in the second round.

Using your own methodology, that's pretty clearly Giannis, especially if you're focusing on the stats these players put up in the playoffs as opposed to team success. It seems to me that you're using Giannis's lack of team success to rule him out since that has led the media to label him as not being great in the playoffs, even though Jokic hasn't done any better in that regard.

Damn, I really wanted to see fully healthy Bucks vs. fully healthy Nets.

DeVincenzo was having a really good season too (when he was supposed to be traded but that deal with the Kings fell through).

LFG!

HOW THE **** WERE THE HAWKS GIVEN A TIMEOUT WHEN THEY DIDNT HAVE POSSESSION OF THE DAMN BALL?????????

I CALL SHENANIGANS!!!!

Julius Randle is like a broke ass ***** at KFC.

This game's over. Knicks need Randle to actually be the Most Improved Player Randle to ****ing win games.

See y'all on Sunday at 1pm for game 4.