don't really have a strong stance on ROY, but i don't see the parallel

Warriors would get a few more wins with Udoh instead of Zaza

He's almost as good as Gobert on D (stats against bench though), and his pick skillz makes his offense not totally disastrous

He really belong to the NBA, in the list of positive players

I announced 15/5/5 for jingles at the beginning of the season, after a rough start, he's playing at this level of production. Not even overpaid on a 36/3 contract signed at 30yo

Funny how both of the RoTY candidates are 21 year-old rookies, and last year's was a 22 year old. It's almost as if having that extra two years of seasoning at a high level makes them play better their first year in the league.

Jamal's numbers have been just as good as DMitch's depending on which stats you value and he's younger, yet nobody is talking about him because didn't start high school late or stay an extra year. Likewise for Booker who's been imo a better version of Mitchell at a younger age.

Narrative about "best player" on a winning team really meaning scorer allowed to play freely in a fortuitous situation.

Same way Melo got ROY over Bron.

I think it's an interesting race especially compared to last years joke of a race.

I definitely think Simmons brings more value to the table both through his D and his versatility while Mitchell has a big edge on shooting/scoring. I think Simmons wins on name recognition and the fact that's he's the #1 pick. I also think Utah has other guys who are definitely better than Mitchell, while on the Sixers Simmons is clearly the #2 guy after Embiid. If Utah moves up a ton in the standings due to Mitchell's play, I think he has a shot at winning it.

As of January 3rd Bovada ROY odds was Simmons with a 2/13 vs 4/1 for Mitchell but it was 1/20 earlier in the season before the Sixers December/January slide. Maybe it's slid a little more but the Sixers have been playing better lately and so has Simmons albeit with less triple doubles.

Sigh, booker out. Load up on dubs, would be shocked if suns lost by less than 30.

This didn't happen

Do You know Jamal Murray is only 5 months younger than Donovan ? Maybe it's like wine and there's something special with calendar years, but otherwise sorry to tell you that but they are the same age

Meh it's best for them long-term. I have a feeling that the team who races for the bottom first is going to end up with the worst record which is ideal.

Speaking of Booker, I was looking at his numbers in comparison with Jamal/DMitch, and the thing that stands out most to me is the number of "bad" shots that the Kentucky boys take and make in relation to their total number of shots.

Assuming shots from 3-23 feet are all bad, the percentages of bad shots each player takes are:

DMitch - 32%
Booker - 47%
Murray - 43%

Yet their TS%'s are:

DMitch - .550
Booker - .564
Murray - .575

This is why I'm lower on Mitchell than the other two. JM/Book have the shot-profile of absolute chuckers yet they are both doing so with above-average efficiency. This leads me to believe that they'll have more ability in high-leverage situations due to a much more efficient scoring profile on the shots that defenses tend to give you.

I could be wrong, but it sure looks like Mitchell is maxing out his efficiency based on shot locations and still falls short of the others.

The point is many will give Mitchell credit for being a rookie when he is in experience only. He is older than nearly all one and done second year players... As is Simmons and as was Brogdon.

I'm not trying to say we need to compare Murray next year to Mitchell this, I'm saying that the narrative of him being a rookie (and being the best player on his team) is a dumb one.

The narrative that Donovan Mitchell is a rookie is a dumb one ? Lol wat?

The narrative that he should be compared to other rookies when it comes to accomplishments is, imo.

How many stars were worse in their 21 year old season vs. their 19/20 rookie years? The answer is pretty much zero when excluding injury years.

[edit] I know Melo didn't win the award over Lebron and Horford didn't win it over Durant, but a lot of us (TZ especially) had the former's as their RoY despite being older than the latters, and we all know who ended up being better.

Gotta love it when dood comes in to tell us we shouldn't be talking about rookies simmons & mitchell for a rookie of the year debate but we should rather talk about jamal murray

I can assure you that Donovan Mitchell, or anyone else in the same High School class who spent 2 years in college opposed to one, did not benefit at all with another year under Rick Pitino or college coaches with practice time restriction vs spending that year developing under NBA coaching staffs like Jamal Murray did.

That's not what I'm saying and you know it. I even said Mitchell will win RoTY.

Are people bothered that ROY isn't the award for best prospect? It's an award for who has the best season, not who is the best player. I'm fine with it being an award that doesn't correlate to which rookie will be better in the future but has to do with who gets drafted into a situation where they get a meaningful role with significant minutes.

I'd rather have Seadood tell us about how Wilson Chandler is underrated.

I'd rather have BDHarrison make stuff up while providing nothing of value to the thread.

My whole point was that everyone slurps Mitchell like he's this god because his rookie year has been so great, when he's not exactly playing on a level playing field compared to other stars that everyone is comparing him to. Yes I used a player on my team and Booker as a comparison, sue me.

[edit] I'm not sure where I stand on the award because there really isn't a way to fix it.. It has more to do with the hype than any hardware.

I basically don't care about a comparison of Mitchell, Booker, and Murray that doesn't talk about their defense. The offensive numbers are available and easy to see. I don't watch a lot of games, so it is more interesting to me to read assessments of their defense. Is it a problem for title hopes if any of those guys is your best starting backcourt defender?

Obviously it should just be had best year rather than best prospect, all awards go that way. Even MVP isn't actually awarded to the "best" player, but rather the player who had the best year

Well the MVP is also heavily linked to team success (when it likely shouldn't be). Other than RWB, most MVPs come from top 3 teams in each conference.

if Simmons could just become a corner threat, it would be great for their offense.

Thank you. Looking at PER seems to suggest Pippen is greatly overrated, but maybe that is what happens when you play with someone who requires the ball at all times.

Seafood you can't just ignore time in league and go straight by age, being part of an NBA team and playing games of NBA makes you better (as does growing older, it's both). Comparing Booker to Mitchell (same age, different # years in league) is unfair in same way comparing Mitchell to I dunno, Tatum (diff age, same # years in league) is.

i don't really agree that booker/murray have bad shot profiles. they have the shooting profile of jumpshooters. this basically penalizes mitchell for getting to the rim a lot. i see what you are arguing but it's tenuous. also gives booker/murray the benefit of having realized improvements to their shooting w/o granting that mitchell's strengths may also improve. age will be a retort there, but there's got to be some consideration for time spent in the nba as well. mitchell may just be able to create those kinds of shots in the paint reliably. he's got that kind of athleticism