I just feel like it's hard to deny that a) he's a fine player now (granted with serious warts) and b) 21 year olds, especially ones with the tools/pedigree Wiggins does, tend not to just plateau at 21.

Millsap+Thabo for RAnderson+KJ+Cash

Who says no?

FWIW I didn't say Wiggins sucks, I even said he can be useful. He's just not this lock to be a great player, actually he's a pretty big dog.

if one of the GMs "blinked" id say its david griffin, but no reason to be a nit with 32 yo lebron james. pretty much your classic win/win imo.

I think it's easy to deny this though.

He's 60/79 at SF in RPM
He's 78/79 at SF in DRPM

His WS/48 is .064, well below average. This has been the same the past two years

League average PER, which is a slight dip from last year.

I don't think he's a fine player right now. He does one thing well, which is ISO scoring at a middling efficiency, but that's arguably not even necessary in the modern NBA.. In particular when you have KAT and Lavine on your squad. And when he doesn't have the ball he's not particularly valuable imo...

The person who is "hard to deny" as a fine player is Otto Porter, imo. Sure we can project AW's athleticism will make him improve into something better, but as of yet he doesn't, and he fails the eye test miserably when the ball isn't in his hands.

I have this awful feeling that KAT is going to have a major leg injury (ACL type of thing). I don't know why.

Ok so what's your redraft of the top 5 for 2014?

the responses by Hawks fans to this tweet welcoming Dunleavy and Williams are pretty entertaining - not happy fans.

https://twitter.com/ATLHawks/status/817858188833865732

You should prob check out contracts before making fake trades.
What does PG have to do with Barbosa?
You're on fire. You should start a psychic predictions thread.

Redrafting 2014 right now:
Embiid
Jokic
Jabari
Gordon
Wiggins

Embiid and Jokic v close, Gordon and Wiggins v close. Jabari comfortably 3rd in both directions

Man Aaron gordon just seems like water trash to me, not sure what people see in him

That's just straight trolling by Hawks Twitter. Those guys know what and where they are in their career. Tweeting that just antagonizes fans and opens up the players to mockery. It's amusing, but I don't see the purpose.

Yea I just had a look and he has been quite bad this year :/ going backwards. If I was getting one of the players onto a new team I'd prefer Gordon but he'll probably end up having a worse career than Wiggins. His situation at Orlando is just so bad. He's not a SF.

I wish Nylon Calculus had position stats for this year.

Last year per 36 at PF Gordon put out 14.2/10/2.6 with 1.2 TOs and a 56 TS% and at SF he put out 10.8/8.9/1.8 with 1.5 TOs and a 50.4 TS%. He played 80% of his minutes at the 4.

This year total hes putting out 15.3/6.2/2.5 with 1.5 TOs and a 51.2 TS%. From doing some nbawowying it looks like hes only played ~17% of his minutes at the 4.

If he had been playing as much at the 4 as last year his stats might have shown progress this year. Really tough to evaluate him under such different circumstances.

This seems about right if drafting in the top 5, although it seems that Hood/Harris/Capela are favorites to have a better career than Wiggins, but his tools make him the better risk/reward pick imo.

Wiggins under Gordin is silly. Otherwise it's fine obviously I might even have Jabari over Jokic, he's been really good and i see him as having more upside. Jokic because roster building wise, a center who doesnt defend the rim well is always a bit tricky.

That 2014 draft was a bad bad one for TZ GMs in hindsight

Banzai's list is good except Gordon shouldn't be above Wiggins (or Smart for that matter). Dood+Wiggins lack of WIM are winning me over, I don't get how someone can look so indifferent all the time.

Seems like a good spot for a pros and cons list-

Wiggins pros- Super athletic, quick, improved 3pt shot each year, can get to the rim and to the foul line, pure scorer, great in iso.

Wiggins cons- Looks lost on defense, displays indifference, sometimes takes "bad" twos

How many slashers in the NBA that can also shoot the 3?

Making the haters mad.

Barbosa is a good PG that can run an offense and plays hard - and likely wants to compete for a ring. Seems like a solid backup PG if they can work that out.

Yes I realize I'm not taking time to work up salaries, ain't nobody got time for that.

People are praising the Cavs for getting him, but I don't think people are saying the Hawks got taken or anything. They got a 2019 late first for a half season rental of a guy who they 100% were not going to re-sign when he was a FA this offseason.

A lot of normies are bashing them for "trading with a rival", but they got their asses absolutely destroyed by the Cavs last season so that's nonsense, they had their shot 2 years ago, didn't make it, and lost Horford.

Dumber teams would've stuck it out this year, lost in the second round, and then had Korver and Millsap leave for nothing.

both teams won in that trade

I think it's a mutually beneficial deal ultimately.

2014 Draft re-do

1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. Parker
4. Hood
5. LaVine

Wiggins not top 5 from that draft.

After taking out 4th quarters, to avoid blowout minutes, Barbosa played 74 minutes last year without Livingston or Steph. I assume this was all due to them being injured. During those minutes he had 0 assists and played most of those minutes with Draymond, Iguadala and Klay.

This season he has played 5 total minutes without either Bledsoe, Knight or Ulis on the court and during all 5 of those minutes he shared the court with Devin Booker.

He isnt running the offense on a 12-25 team let alone the defending champions.

TRUST THE PROCESS

Now I want to see a Trust-The-Process Hamilton-style rap