confused scherer...been a long day. Appreciate some elaboration.

Thats fine and all capone, just as long as people do understand his defense has been **** this series. Not just close their eyes and proclaim goat evertime he hits a 3. That 3rd quarter was something else and you could see it in the pacers after that they felt defeated. Still feel they pull out a win on hibberts back in game 6.

lolvega if you don't want to discuss it then gtfo and stfu. lebron's goatness MUST be recognised

lebrons D has been fine. everyone gets beat sometimes. hes getting beat less than most and doing it while shouldering an insane offensive load and playing amazing help D. just absolutely ridiculous standards hes held to.

you said:

on-ball defense is guarding a/the ball-handler. pacers have one guy (pg24) who can dribble, and when he dribbles too much he gets careless/lazy/out of control and turns it over.

george hill, idk. idk if hes scared or naturally isnt very good at dribbling, but boy he has bad handles for a pg. if you went through every indy possession where hes the ball handler in a pnr, youd see how many he's ruined. he doesnt attack the pick, and often steps out and resets the offense. this a) allows miami's d to stand still an be in good positions b) forces indy to take bad shots at the end of clocks (which, shockingly, theyve done pretty well with tbh) and once again, imo, hes much better off the ball. if they had a legit ball handler this wouldnt be so bad, but they really dont.

lance just disappears and is bi polar. sometimes he'll put his head down and attack, other times he'll just stand around and pound the offensive glass. but overall he hasnt shown the ability to score/create consistently enough off the dribble.

sam young is, well, sam young. all-around useless basketball player.

dj augustin, also bad.

indy is a half-court-grind-it-out offense. if they had a pg or more consistent ball handler to score or set guys up easier, theyd be much better. but none of these guys mentioned are consistently capable. so lebrons on-ball d really isnt that important, aside from the possessions where pg24 has the ball and hes guarding him.

eta: and lebron isnt even on pg24 all the time. wade/chalmers/ray/bron have all split time guarding him.

eta2: all the guys mentioned above had a combined 14 tov's last night. i didn't count in the second half, but i'd say around ~9 of them were unforced. (4 were in the first half)

i mean, george hill has struggled against ray allen's cold dead body in 1on1 situations. its scary. if you cant beat ray off the dribble consistently, but you'll wave off the pick when norris cole is on you, the ball doesnt belong in your hands to initiate the offense.

and dont get anyone started on dj augustin and sam young. they played 35m last night.

dont disagree with your analysis of any of the players. However, PG has had the ball a lot in half court sets and when hes tried to get the hoop with lebron guarding him one on one he has been pretty successful (relative to how good lebron is at defense). I think George has played above his head a little bit this series but bron is either gassed or not giving it it his all defensively, or just flat out can't guard PG for a whole game. Probably a little bit of all of that. The pacers have been their most successful with running the offensive through george and posting hibbert. So hopefully they can figure that out for the next game and hopefully 2.

Capone, not saying this means anything, just an observation of something I said. In 2007 i was laughed at by almost all of my friends (most don't want but just the playoffs for nba) when I said Lebron is the only guy I've seen that can pass Jordan for being the most dominant player I've ever seen. I tell you this because I've felt that all along as I'm sure most of you have as well. My beef isn't with the fact that its possible, I know there are some like leotrollstoy who it is. Its just the fact that both sides are so biased and unable to be objective when discussing it. There are some, Geoff is quite reasonable when making the comparison, as well as you but some of the Heat banwagoners are just atrocious.

edit: and yea if jordan played today with the media the way it is and internet being in everyones front pocket...he'd get just as much scrutiny. Possibly even moreso because of him being a known *******.

look, im a big lebron-hater and would love the chance to **** all over him for this. but even i cant. nobody can carry a huge offensive load and shut down the opposing teams best player all-game long. it isnt possible at this point in the season.

following sentence doesnt have as much to do with lebron, but george has had 2 complete games the whole series. he was awful in games 4/5 and played good in the first q last night. scored 4pts in the 2nd/3rd q (17 after 3) then poured in 10p in the final quarter when the game was over. has he blown by lebron off the dribble several times? yes. but everybody, including hypermegaelitesuperalltimegoathalloffamer lebron james gets beat. thats sports bro. stop paying attn to the all "goat" posts. its a game-thread, thats what happens.

eta: another trick, that i use, and may help you out, is to ignore all "jordan did this, lebron does that, bla bla bla is better" posts. they always start the same way and come from the same people. they'll be really easy to recognize and easier to skip over.

This

see if indy manages to dump grangers expiring 14 mill on someone (without taking anything or much back) they'd have like ~25 mill in cap space. they have to bring back west, but maybe he'll take less than 10m he was making this year? idk.

i think they need a better pg for sure, but dont believe they have to dump hill. hes fine off the ball and plays decent d. when he doesnt get stuck on lebron anyway. but id like to see them go after jarrett jack even if its only to backup hill, bc they can play together.

also going to need a backup for west and shouldnt bring hansbro back.

it could be a favorable situation for sure.

i think west probably gets 2/20 again, or something similar. he really hasn't declined at all

is there a prognosis for granger?

Got Bill Russell as the greatest. Never saw him play.

ya i dont disagree about west and the 2/20. not like he relies on athleticism anyways.

but snatching jack/landry would be perfect for indiana if they can dump dg. im not too sure about his knee, i am sure we'll learn more in the off-season tho.

finding some good vets on min contracts will help too. blatche is still collecting his 7.5, so maybe he'd sign another 1/$1.35 deal if brooklyn doesnt bring him back.

edit: they still have 3 years of mahinmi at 4/year and 2 more years of gerald green at 3.5/year and they dont even use him.

idk who would want granger, zero certainty with him. it'd have to be a salary dump. maybe eric gordon if the cans are sick of his bull**** and don't want to be saddled with that contract? super risky play both ways tho

i think pacers are better off letting granger expire than taking on eg. paul george is going to get maxed after next season, and hibbs is currently maxed, hill making 8/year, west will be on ~10/year. fuuuuuuck that.

but idk they may have to give away a first rounder for a team to take dg. but if that gives them enough cap room to really improve, its more than worth it. theyre built to win now, just need a few improvements.

Can't dump Granger. He's got a huge deal and no one is going to take him unless they're basically paid to. If the Pacers get lucky he'll be amenable to coming off the bench (the coaching staff will be able to use "we're easing you back after injury" as an excuse for only so long unless he's cool with it).

IND wants West back, We (the fans) want him back, West wants to come back. West will be back. 2/22 or there abouts.

You are the only one I can recall being this down on Hill. The staff seems to love him and no rumors have come out saying they're looking to replace him. Slim chance they do anything significant there since he's an important part of the offense and they've got 5/40 wrapped up in him.

Why would they ever NOT bring PsychoT back. Fan favorite that's done fine in limited minutes. Seems like a perfect fit.

Granger's surgery went well but the dude has just broken down recently. In fairness to him, this surgery should've been done a year ago but he was told (incorrectly) that he wouldn't need it and could come back. Oops.

They'll eat the last year of Grangers contract and then Max PG. THey're a super young team but they're right about at the limits of their practical spending after everyone gets their deals.

1 - granger makes 14 and is expiring. thats hardly a huge deal. giving a rebuilding team like sacto a first to clear cap room is a win/win for both teams. the team that takes him on can always move him before the tdl as well, and double up on the picks they got for taking him. as for the second part, i dont disagree if they keep him, they tried it when he came back and he was bad.

2 - i want him back too, hes an integral part of the team.

3 - possibly, but hes proving his worth or lack thereof this series. hes not bad, hes good. even better off the ball than initiating the offense all-game long. id love him spotting up in the corner as opposed to sam young or lance. and he can catch and drive when defenders contest too hard, thats a valuable asset.

4 - uh, because they may have enough cap room to get BETTER at the backup position than hansbro. i was just thinking someone who isnt so reliant on others/orebs to get hoops. if they have to bring him back and hes cheap, thats not a bad option either. just isnt going to improve the team at all.

birdman suspended gm6? who didnt see that coming?

Psycho T doing work

Stern wants a game 7.

More significant line mover:

1. LeBron missing Game 6 against Indiana tomorrow
2. Aaron Rodgers missing an NFL playoff game against random team

why is it with the NBA we cannot let go of the past? Jordan hasnt played a relevant game in over 15 years and its all anyone wants to talk about every time lebron plays a game.

In hockey, Gretzkys name is brought up every single game.
In baseball we dont fantasize over willie mays everyday.
In football brett favre retired 2 years ago and now he irrelevant.

But with the NBA its Jordan did this or Jordan did that. I loved Jordan but my goodness his career is over. Im just dont understand the hero worship of Jordan.

End rant/ back to discussing Jordan.

And T's T was rescinded because, as it turns out, getting sucker punched and then shoved isn't actually cause for a technical foul.

I guess, I just can't see anyone giving up much to get him, and in reality, the Pacers don't need a ton of cap room next year. Yeah, he's 99% not to be worth his cost, but PG isn't going to get a new deal until after next year anyway and they already have enough to bring West back.

Since the Pacers play their starters 45m/gm, that's all they really need.

Since I don't follow the NBA as closely as I used to: Who do they get? Are there many players out there that can significantly improve the team at his spot for that price (~$4.2M)?

Birdman was a bad boy. Suspended for pushing? Ridiculous! Can one imagine the NHL with such a rule? No team would be able to field a complete roster.