NBA Offseason Thread 2017 - Page 65 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

I am one of Love's biggest critics, but I am going to have to disagree with you. Cavs get worse if they swap Love for Melo. I am not sure what Melo does better than Love for the Cavs.

06-30-2017 , 03:34 PM

#1602

Floyd13

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 360

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooders0n

Thinking offense=defense for indidivual players is a pretty good litmus test for not knowing what the **** you're talking about.

Offense=Defense at the team level. But an individual's impact to the team's defense is much smaller than an individual's offensive impact can be. For that reason offense is almost always significantly more important when discussing individual player value.

This is ESPECIALLY true with point guards, as it's even more difficult for them to have a significant defensive impact one way or another.

Rim protection is the one area where an individual player can have a truly big defensive impact to the team.

This.

Final four teams this year had IT, Irving, Curry and Parker/Mills. Really held them back.

06-30-2017 , 03:34 PM

#1603

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwd

Irving was 4th worst in defensive points saved from the 2017 playoffs. His DPS was -13.14 and is offensive points added was 28.91.

http://nbamath.com/nba-2017-playoff-tpa-scores/

So a tiny sample of the worst defensive stat in existence. Cool.

06-30-2017 , 03:37 PM

#1604

Cinarocket

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 14,796

Point guard defense absolutely does matter though

A unknown european kid who can't play O at all just got drafted #8

06-30-2017 , 03:39 PM

#1605

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinarocket

Point guard defense absolutely does matter though

A unknown european kid who can't play O at all just got drafted #8

By the Knicks.

06-30-2017 , 03:40 PM

#1606

THAY3R

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36,550

Kyrie is a huge idiot. It is known

06-30-2017 , 03:41 PM

#1607

THAY3R

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwd

I am one of Love's biggest critics, but I am going to have to disagree with you. Cavs get worse if they swap Love for Melo. I am not sure what Melo does better than Love for the Cavs.

Helps keep Lebron fresh which is basically the most important thing for the Cavs.

06-30-2017 , 03:49 PM

#1608

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by THAY3R

Helps keep Lebron fresh which is basically the most important thing for the Cavs.

Yet hates on Kyrie lol. TZ where amazing happens .

06-30-2017 , 03:54 PM

#1609

THAY3R

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36,550

I didn't say Melo > Kyrie on the Cavs, but yeah Kyrie is a huge idiot with 0 awareness

06-30-2017 , 03:55 PM

#1610

THAY3R

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36,550

Hill Waiters Melo Lebron Dalembert

06-30-2017 , 03:55 PM

#1611

Iwreckshop

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,542

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooders0n

Yet hates on Kyrie lol. TZ where amazing happens .

Kyrie didn't do **** to help keep "Lebron fresh".

Just look what happened when Lebron sat in the finals on the defensive side of the ball when Kyrie and love are on the floor at the same time. The warriors scored at will. To say "defense doesn't matter" laughable.

And the reason IT/steph/Kyrie/Parker were in the respective semis is b/c of the elite defenders around them picking up their massive slanking

06-30-2017 , 04:00 PM

#1612

Perhaps Shimmy

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 2,577

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooders0n

By the Knicks.

06-30-2017 , 04:05 PM

#1613

jwd

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 2,681

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwreckshop

This

06-30-2017 , 04:07 PM

#1614

Fallen Hero

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 21,439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd13

This.

Final four teams this year had IT, Irving, Curry and Parker/Mills. Really held them back.

Curry is not a bad defender, IT arguably did hold the Celtics back

06-30-2017 , 04:28 PM

#1615

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Isaiah Thomas's defense is worse than Kyrie's and even he is still able to participate in lineups that crush. Whoever scores more points played the better defense that night.

06-30-2017 , 04:34 PM

#1616

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen Hero

IT arguably did hold the Celtics back

In Game 1 Kyrie had 11 points on 4-11 shooting and JR Smith had 2 points on 1-2 shooting. Tristan Thompson was 7-7 with 20 points and 9 boards. LeBron completely crushed with 38 on 14-24 shooting.

Game 2 he played 17 minutes and got hurt and it didn't really matter because Cavs destroyed everyone.

I'd love to hear your argument that IT held Boston back.

06-30-2017 , 04:40 PM

#1617

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwreckshop

The Warriors scored at will on everyone. They swept TZ golden boy George Hill who also has the best defensive center itl by a wide margin. Curry had a 67.6 TS% for the series on high usage.

The reason Steph/IT/Kyrie are successful is because their teams score more points than the other teams. They are largely responsible for that. As are their teammates. It's a team sport.

Steph is not successful because Andre Iguodala picks up his slanking.

Clown.

06-30-2017 , 04:45 PM

#1618

Fallen Hero

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 21,439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooders0n

he didn't held them back in the sense that they're not beating the cavs with or without him, but the celtics were not noticeably worse with him out.
I generally agree with the argument that offense >> defense for pg's, but terrible defense still has a noticeable impact

06-30-2017 , 04:50 PM

#1619

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen Hero

Outlier defense can have an impact and if anyone is outlier bad on D it's IT2, but even he didn't seem to have much of an impact. They were still able to have the 13th beat defense in the league and his regular season on/off numbers make it seem like their offense suffered decently more with him off than their defense improved.

06-30-2017 , 04:51 PM

#1620

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

To clarify I'm not saying PG defense doesn't matter at all. I'm just saying it doesn't matter that much. And people are overstating it quite a bit in several different recent discussions.

06-30-2017 , 05:01 PM

#1621

THAY3R

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36,550

It's essential to beat the Warriors. Hard to put an exact value on that but I'd rank it higher than "doesn't matter that much"

06-30-2017 , 05:07 PM

#1622

DodgerIrish

Fraudulent Zodiac

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28,193

Quote:

Andre Iguodala doesn't have plans to meet with the Golden State Warriors during the initial free-agency period, league sources told ESPN's Chris Haynes.

Iguodala's decision doesn't rule out the small forward returning to the Warriors, but it will give other teams the opportunity to swoop in and take away one component of Golden State's title-winning core.

Teams can begin talking to free agents at 12:01 a.m. Saturday, but no deals can be officially signed until July 7.

ESPN has confirmed a report by The Vertical that Iguodala plans to meet with other teams.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...-agency-period

06-30-2017 , 05:09 PM

#1623

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by THAY3R

It's essential to beat the Warriors. Hard to put an exact value on that but I'd rank it higher than "doesn't matter that much"

Couldn't disagree with this more. There is no defending them. Having a high-ceiling scorer is the most important thing to have vs. them. Kyrie is like one of the best players itl to have vs specifically Golden State. You need to increase variance as much as possible vs. them. Not hope George Hill shuts down Curry.