Pretty big overlap imo.

Tony Allen signing with the pelicans

they desperately need his wing play even if him and rondo obv cant play together

I'm interested in the players who aren't part of the overlap.

i think paying 1 guy 60%+ of the cap (not married to that #) is almost certainly a bad strat in this scenario

I like how when Russ's teammates get mentioned we gloss over how many good to elite defenders he has around him. it wasn't their offense that made them good last year, and Russ has a lot of defensive shortcomings.

Offense w/o Russ probably looks like 2015 Finals Cavs sans LBJ tho.

Yeah I get that, but they'd still be a good to very-good defense. People like to act like his supporting cast was WOAT, but they were actually quite decent on D.

Steph>>>Russ in all situations imo. I think the impact he has on the court is being really slept on.

Like, in the last two years the Woyas have been a -4.3 and -.3 with him off the court, with him on they are a +17.9 and +17.2 respectively. Unlike Russ Steph has a metric ton of value when he gives up the ball because of his gravity and off-ball wizardry.

He really is the true unicorn in the league, capable of being a top 3ish #1 but perfectly content being a super-human role player until needed.

He's capable of being a top 1 #1

lol SI, ranking Middleton ahead of DD. At this point if you think that you should give up talking or writing about basketball and keep your opinions to yourself

35. Demar Derozan seems perfect, actually.

nah, 20-25 is probably about right. By the end of this season he will probably be 15-20. Also, Middleton is not very good/ belongs nowhere near Derozan let alone above him

Every year bigt2 makes lofty Raps predictions, they massively flame out, and he returns bigger and bolder. It's like Canadian Memento

DeRozan as the 15th best player ITL lol.

I would have won the 2+2 dynasty draft of last year if I took Middleton instead of Demar

I think next year the debate is a no brainer for Middleton

I said at the end of the year. DD last year went from around 35th to 20-25 range. What's so bold about claiming he will go up 5 more spots?

People talk about Demar's playoffs, would about Middleton's? He was arguably the worst player for both teams in that series.

Middleton came back early from a hamstring tear.

I think both may have been a tad too high, and Demar is too old and 1/2 dimensional to make a jump imo.

Just a different type of player and you've been misunderstanding this for years. Derozan is both incapable of being the best player on a team that can do anything and also incapable of being on the court with better players than him and still providing near his peak value. He is in a purgatory of players that are too one dimensional to be a role player but not good enough at what he's good at to be a star.

You're mind basically goes as far as "Derozan can score 40 on any given night on decent efficiency, Middleton can't do that, how can he be better?" and it shows a basic lack of understanding of basketball and what is valuable in basketball. If you define "who is better" as whose team would win more games if they were the best player on their team then sure, Derozan is better. But there's only a handful of guys who can be the best players on teams who can be relevant. Once you get past them having superstar skills becomes less valuable bc the goal is to try to title or at least contend, and if you can't contend with DD or Middleton as your best player then what becomes most valuable is how they mesh on a team they can contend on. The Raptors have made Lowry/DD work, but they would almost certainly be better with a 2 who is better on defense and better at shooting 3's (like Middleton). Clearly every team with a star- Warriors/Cavs/Spurs/Boston/Rockets etc would be better served with Middleton as well. Basically it goes back to the old Tyreke Evans vs Danny Green discussion. Danny Green can't do the things Tyreke could wrt creating and usage, but it never really mattered, because if either is your leading creator your team is irrelevant anyway, but DG fit in on great teams seamlessly while Tyreke can't. Derozan v Middleton is like that except Derozan is a way better player than Evans.

Derozan has improved at a unique rate these past few seasons, the problem is he hasn't improved by evolving his game, he has improved by increasing his efficiency at the types of shots he already takes. That obviously has a ceiling, his midrange 2p% can't just keep increasing forever. So now the path to improvement is by evolving, he has to improve his defense, or improve his value as an off ball player, both of which he has shown unable (or unwilling) to do.

Also, ya, Middleton was coming off a serious injury last year. If he's bad going forward that is probably the reason. My analysis was assuming Middleton was playing at his '14-'15/'15-'16 level.

I am a big Raps fan who has defended DD in here, but this is a good post. I still really like watching Demar play, but this is a good way to explain his limitations. I also appreciate you acknowledging his improvements, because they seem real, but I do agree it's time to evolve or stagnate, and it's hard to evolve this far into a career.

The one thing I wanted to add is he has never had the benefit of even half-way decent coaching. Casey routinely says our offense is to put the ball in our best players hands. I really wonder what DD would look like after a year or two with Brad or Popovic. His work ethic is insane so I think he would grow with the right mentor, but we may never know.

So you guys think the Middleton+ offer for Kyrie was better if LBJ was under contract for 3 more years? No way that pick has EV of top 35 player.

This is incorrect, I completely understand that argument and am 2 levels past it unlike yourself who is only 1 level past it.
Secondary creation is very valuable, Derozan is fully capable of being the 2nd best player on a championship level team, would he be the ideal fit like a Curry or Durant, or some other floor spacer who is also elite at creation? Of course not, but no one can control the ball the entire possession. Westbrook tried in the playoffs and when he came off the floor, the team sucked. When the 4th quarter came around, he sucked and so did the team because his legs were so tired from carrying that usage.

Derozan is efficient (not incredibly so, but above league average) and carries a huge usage, which is incredibly valuable in the NBA. Also, when a possession bogs down he is also the guy they just throw the ball to with 5 seconds left on the clock and he can get his shot off almost at will which is also extremely valuable. You need a special type of wing defender on the floor as well to keep him from going off, an Avery Bradley won't cut it as he can't be defended by anyone shorter than him.

keep up the good fight......he might be able to a title as the 2nd best player maybe with lebron or something or if the warriors didn't exist. in most situations, he won't win it unless he's part of some all-star team where the 2-5th best players are very close to being as good as each other and on those teams, his insanely high usage won't be nearly as valuable. to me he's like allen iverson--a player you'd love to have on a bad team but want no part of on an actual contending team. i know ai made the finals back in the day but the east was an actual joke then.

toronto despite all their wins, has had almost no title equity the past 3-5 seasons. obviously due to Cavs, Warriors, Spurs, etc. but in most scenarios and most seasons they don't have much equity because they just don't have enough elite talent and DDR doesn't bring much value past his contract value.

Not sure when the actual EV of the pick is but even if that were true Middleton is drawing dead to be an elite player whereas the BKN pick is live for that (and obviously the player is younger and will make less which is much better for the celts timeline)