Giannis made a giant jump last year; not sure if this is right but might be the largest jump in PER for a 22 year old--18.8 @ 56% TS% to 26.1 @ 59.9% is NUTS. Pretty sure nobody thought Giannis was top 10 before last year but by the end of the year most people did. Maybe that's what DOOD was talking about. Lebron went from 18.5 @ 49% TS% to 25.7 @ 55% TS% from 19 to 20 which is also sick.

Yeah good list, agree on the OAT equity as well.

We were talking about to casuals, the ones who like others have said probably put Kyrie above Giannis.

Thay3r is great, but he's on the wrong side of this. Poorzingis is a lock to be a good player, but I'm struggling to see where his ceiling puts them
Amongst the elites.

Well he's a 21 yo 7"3 guy who can shoot 3's, pass, and shown flashes of great rim protection. I mean we can debate how good his output has been his first two years but LOL at struggling to see how his ceiling is super high.

+1

It's to be noted that he even protects the rim *without* jumping. He's seriously that long ; he has an 8 foot wingspan!

At the very least let's see him operate as a focal point in a system that isnt the ****ing triangle (after Melo gets traded).

Last season his "point" guard was DRose ffs.

Porzingis deserves some slack and an opportunity to fully prove himself this season.

I wonder if Seadood SEADOODS in real life too.

"Yeah I agree this Cabernet is pretty excellent, but I'm just not sure if it matches Jokic's passing ability for a big man."

My reports are accurate though. And Geoff saying a guy who shot 35.7% on a decent volume and put up 1.8a/36 is hardly what I'd call glorious at that level. I understand the talent is there, but what kind of player does he project To be? Unlike TuT I think he has top 20 or even top 10 equity, but putting him in the category of players who are already in the top 10 is a stretch at this point.

With that said, I'd take him over everyone except Ball in this draft, maybe Fultz. He just doesn't belong in the same conversation as Giannis/Kat/Jokic at this point.

Cant wait for tickets to go on sale. I'm grabbing the closest seat to the court for December 13th when that **** **** cock suck Paul George slithers back into the Fieldhouse. I'm unleashing fury.

He projects to be a quicker taller Dirk who can protect the rim you dingleberry


"I don't know how great he can be, after all he's only a 7'3 21 year old with an 8 foot wingspan shooting 36% from 3 on 5 attempts a game. Ho hum."


His numbers were also markedly better before he hurt his foot earlyish in the year and then he played through injuries for most of the year. So yeah he might be a guy worth waiting and seeing on instead of declaring some kind of confident cap on his ceiling given his specs and accomplishments so far.

willing to discount how staps has looked so far b/c lolknicks, but dirk comparisons are superficial at this point. i think staps will be a better shooter than his #s have looked so far, not that they have been bad, but he hasn't demonstrated dirk caliber shooting. this post is really more about dirk than staps fwiw

STAPS before he got hurt this year in 32 games shot 40% from 3 and 48% from 2 on the exact same total shots as DIRK's CAREER, with Staps shooting slightly better than Dirk from 3(38%) on much higher volume(5.3 to 3.3) and slightly worse from 2(50%) when compared to CareerDirk

21 years old. 7'3. Wingspan.

Dirk kinda reminds me of Jokic in the sense that they're both european basketball players. Did you see the latest highlights video of jokic btw guys?

Nah

Players basically never become smart. Also he's on the Knicks so he'll never be great.

Thats the other thing, he's nearly a lock to be injury plagued. Knicks will regret not trading him.

i agree with ppl saying kp def has a v good shot to be a top 20 guy, if he were traded to the spurs today i'd have it as like 80%. top 20 really isn't that rare (ignoring injuries)

i get the argument that he's not actually that good yet, and how that might point to some deficient 'intangibles'. but the combo of the flashes he shows and his insane tools justify getting super hyped about his ceiling. and as mentioned as a 21yo with pretty good production already, we're really only arguing about where he lands on the continuum from very good to elite imo - no real chance he doesn't end up being an above average starter or whatever because he probs already is

i think the mould he has is just too elite:
- gonna be able to play c and legitimately protect the rim
- probably average mobility for a center overall on d in terms of switching (which is great for his height)
- great spacer (albeit not a great shotmaker yet): quick and high release, versatile shot, can drive off the catch a bit, deep range
- postup ability; you're not going to be able to put some jabroni on him like you can with say frye or other equivalent shooting center. his post game isn't really a true weapon yet but he's pretty good for a 21yo and is likely to improve in this area
- generally pretty good offensive skills, has some handle, good footwork, good finisher etc

that is such a great stack of skills that could be really dangerous if used correctly. i really do think that many of the criticisms of him and his progression can be legitimately be blamed on lolknicks

lonzo has exactly 0 outs to being the best player of all time.

he's also unlikely to be a top 5 nba player at any juncture in his career.

Ha ha ha ha let the hate FLOW

Lonzo is gonna style all over this thread

lonzo is:
- not quick or strong enough to be a lockdown defender at any position
- not tall enough to protect the rim
- not an all time shooter
- not even a good 1on1 scorer

how exactly does he have anything other than 0% chance of being better than lebron, mj, shaq, duncan, hakeem, kareem, steph, durant, etc?

might be an excellent player, definitely has a chance to be the best PG in the league for some time and could sneak into top 5 maybe, but the all time talk is crazy.

Boston slappies

relevant to the nash discussion a while ago

damn, thats super impressive.

That speaks to what a true pg can do instead of a gunner at the position.

Steph is the only guy to really supersede that, and he's on the perfect team to accentuate his style. He's still somehow able to do it within the flow of share-the-ball offense.

That brings up an interesting thought experiment, what would Steph look like on a team lacking in offensive talent? How worn down would he get?

JAZZ already lost a few wins when the schedule came out

Only western teams they play 3 times are Lakers, Kings, Grizz, Mavs aka worst teams in the West

Rest schedule is also terrible for them