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NBA Offseason Thread 2017 NBA Offseason Thread 2017

08-02-2017 , 02:08 PM
Lebron would have the best offense he's ever experienced and in the past his Offensive Rating has been comparable to the Warriors already. He wouldn't be double teamed and he'd have the best scoring/shooting options ever.

Even if we buy the StephTooUniquelySpecial argument they'd be insanely better on D.

Last edited by THAY3R; 08-02-2017 at 02:14 PM.
08-02-2017 , 02:11 PM
I mean Geoff, the black hole of Labron conversion you've created or participated in isn't exactly helping these threads either

Both sides of the Lebron conversations are just as painful to sit through
08-02-2017 , 02:23 PM
The LeBron fans are like 500x more responsible for the AIDS itt. Nobody said a ****ing thing about Michael Jordan being better than LeBron until a LeBron slappy brought it up for no reason.


Its an objective fact that the Warriors get worse if you swap LeBron for either Curry or Durant. It has nothing to do with Michael Jordan.


The level that Geoff literally worships LeBron James scares me. You love him more than Lavar loves Lonzo.
08-02-2017 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by w_alloy
I hate to interrupt this Lebron/Warriors hypothetical (which I think is quite interesting; not sure which of the three Dubs versions is best but my guess is [-Curry +Lebron] because ridiculous defense) but I saw a stat on Reddit that I thought was kind of crazy:

This season Jokic shot 58.8% from 3 to 20 feet with the next highest being CP3 at 51.6%. That's the same gap as between #2 CP3 and #69 Trey Burke (44.4%).

I'm curious if anyone can find a season-long NBA stat where the leader is more of an outlier (using the simplistic definition [1] - [2] = [2] - [X] where X > 69). The only one I could think of was most points in a game in 05-06 with Kobe at 81, Iverson at 53, and 100+ players with 25+ point games, but that's kind of cheating as it's not really a full season stat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb33f
that's pretty amazing. looks like the real outlier is how good he is close, league leading 62% from 3-10 on top 10 itl volume (12% better than the next best top 10 guy from this range, kat at 50%)*

he's 4th itl from 10-20ft at 53% which is also great. i assume few people sustain +50% shooting from that range for a long period of time because people start guarding you, the exceptions being true midrange masters like cp3/dirk who can still get free for high % midrange jumpers. not quite seeing that level of elite midrange scoring from jokic, but it's a clear strength obv

* the next best % for a top 20 volume guy is surprising to me: valanciunas. def not a guy i associate with soft touch
The craziest part is that most of his 3-10 shots were floaters or hooks. That stat has me equal parts excited (another thing he can do better than anyone else) and equal parts worried that it was a flukey season.

I've said it ITT before, but he simply did not miss shots inside the arc. He was the only one of the ultra-elite efficiency guys that a) didn't shoot a ton of free throws and b) didn't shoot a high percentage from deep.

My guess (hope) is that his midrange numbers either stay the same or go slightly down, but he gets to the line more and gets better from 3. He is an absolutely lights-out shooter from 16-23 and shoots 40% from above the break career, I think he has a chance.
08-02-2017 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
I mean Geoff, the black hole of Labron conversion you've created or participated in isn't exactly helping these threads either

Both sides of the Lebron conversations are just as painful to sit through
What do you suggest? I just ignore a dominating conversation itt? TuT is a respected NBA poster (and he should be). He's right a lot. But for some reason he seems to have a blind spot for LeBron. I'm typically fine just laughing it off but in a spot like this when he's making an assertion that he clearly thinks is right but is easy to prove wrong, it's tough to just sit on my hands. I guess I just have some faith that TuT can see stats that refute what he's saying and take a step back and say "maybe I am a little biased". Could be pointless though.

As for the gist of your post, while I think I contribute a lot to this thread on a wide scale of subjects, I can't deny I have a LeBron bias. Mostly it stems from thinking that, due to the nature of today's hot take/instant reaction world, he gets far too much hate & is extremely underrated. I definitely can be blinded myself when it comes to defending him, and I prob should tone it down some and will work on that going forward for the better of this thread.
08-02-2017 , 02:27 PM
Geoff,

It's you who has the blind spot. LeBron's failures are well documented. You talk about him as if hes won 9 titles.

Last edited by Wooders0n; 08-02-2017 at 02:39 PM.
08-02-2017 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n


The level that Geoff literally worships LeBron James scares me. You love him more than Lavar loves Lonzo.
lol settle down. I "love" the Knicks far more than LeBron. A huge % of my LeBron posts are responding to what I perceive to be misguided takes. If he wasn't responsible for so many ridiculously stupid opinions, I wouldn't care about him at all aside from thinking he's really good at basketball. I can be objective and have an open-minded conversation about him though, neither of which you are remotely capable of. So you must hate him a lot more than I love him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooders0n
Geoff,

It's you who has the blind spot. LeBron's failures are well eocumented. You talk about him as if hes won 9 titles.
No, I talk about him like I think he's the best player of all-time. Which I do. I don't think it's some monumental gap. I think him, Jordan & Shaq all had very similar peaks and the combination of his peak and the duration of his peak give him an edge of anyone who has ever played. Again, if people rated him remotely correctly I wouldn't care. My opinions don't stem from some adoration for him, rather at the frustration that he is a symbol at the state of our population and how we analyze stuff. I mean literally today Michael Jordan says he thinks Kobe is better than him. Do you realize how far off that is from what the truth actually is? It's 2017 we're supposed to be smarter than this.
08-02-2017 , 02:39 PM
Lebron is extremely underrated? What? He's by far the most lauded, praised, and accoladed player since Jordan. Well, except rings.
08-02-2017 , 02:42 PM
The same qualities that gave Jordan his drive and goal-setting that made Jordan a dominant basketball player are the ones that make him feel Kobe>Lebron. If you aren't winning at the pantheon of great players, he doesn't think you get the top billing. Don't think Jordan is comparing Lebron's RPM vs Kobe. Should be pretty easy to understand why he thinks that way and it doesn't make him stupid. It's just how he's wired and why he was so successful
08-02-2017 , 02:42 PM
Its ok about those letters u sent to him in Autumn. He must not of got em. There probably was a problem at the post office or somethin.

Anyway,

The analytical way to view it would be to realize that im right about things like 99.63% of the time and rather than think im wrong about this one thing, reflect and realize that maybe youre wrong and are much more likely to be biased than me given how much u love him.
08-02-2017 , 02:46 PM
Lol TuT
08-02-2017 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Viggity
The same qualities that gave Jordan his drive and goal-setting that made Jordan a dominant basketball player are the ones that make him feel Kobe>Lebron. If you aren't winning at the pantheon of great players, he doesn't think you get the top billing. Don't think Jordan is comparing Lebron's RPM vs Kobe. Should be pretty easy to understand why he thinks that way and it doesn't make him stupid. It's just how he's wired and why he was so successful

Thinking Kobe Bryant is better than LeBron James is objectively stupid. Irrelevant who said it.
08-02-2017 , 03:02 PM
I got bored:

Grades are a little closer to zero sum than most ‘offseason grades’ since the league is zero sum, though situations are independent and offseason moves can be win/win.

Atlanta hawks: F+
Muscala is alright, Dedmon for ~MLE is alright, their draft was probably fine (John Collins), but the Dwight trade was a pure disaster. They have no real direction as far as I can tell as Bud + halfway decent depth pieces (Ersan, aforementioned bigs) will probably win more games than they should. Hard not to remember the pre Shlenk days as well when they got nothing for Horford or Millsap.

Boston Celtics: B+
Hayward is a legit max and signing him to his prime years is a huge win. They haven’t given IT2 too much money (yet). If Fultz is more Kyrie than Harden that trade is a nice win, but anyone trying to grade that trade now is jumping the gun (value relatively equal on face, but since players were known at the draft slots, it’s just a bet on Tatum >/= Fultz). Baynes is whatever, would’ve been nice to get someone a little more mobile for that spot, Dedmon (prob out of price range) or even Willie Reed or Javale Mcgee. The AB for Marcus Morris trade seems to be about a wash, probably a worse player but a guy who can play against the Cavs and one more year of cost control. They are going to have a serious logjam. Its one thing to have a lot of wing-sized players, it’s another thing to have guys who are worthy of real NBA minutes (Rozier, Tatum, Jaylen) no the fringes or out of the rotation.

Brooklyn Nets: B+
Idk much about their first round pick but consensus doesn’t mind him. DAR was a nice haul for Brook. Demarre is probably an appropriate price to pay for those picks. Crabbe trade is okay, if he’s worth ~2/3 of contract, provides spacing for their young guys, is a good lockerroom/work ethic guy—it’s not like their capspace will be worth anything for the next 3 years anyway (there is some opportunity cost to using the Crabbe space on not taking on more bad money for assets). Their FO decisions have been so good since Marks got involved.

Charlotte Hornets: C+
What a boring ass place to be. Smashed the Dwight trade (should start calling it the Miles Plumlee trade since he’s the more important piece on a contract basis), but are totally capped out with no chance at HCA in the playoffs. The worst thing about the trade is that Cody Zeller will play less C this year (I’d consider starting them both, or maybe just move Cody to the bench, with both having durability issues I’d be pretty happy if neither cracked 30 mpg this year). MCW might be worth a flier, but probably not. Monk is probably fine for that slot and though I’m not a fan the fit is good. I think they basically sold down from #31 to #42 in the draft which is not a good look. I’m bored.

Chicago Bulls: F-
The David Nawaba pickup would be kind of nice if they didn’t already have 4 of the same player on the roster. And that was probably the best thing they did all offseason.

Cleveland Cavaliers: F-
Are only really trying to play against one team. Failed miserably to put anyone on the roster that could stay on the court against that team unless Cedi Osman randomly is a thing.

Dallas Mavericks: B
This could fluctuate a bit depending on the price for Nerlens, they’re right to hold out until he accepts something in the mid teens per year instead of 20+. DSJ was an incredible pick even though I hate the guy the talent is there and if Rick doesn’t kill him he’ll get a shot in a great situation. Pretty impressive they were able to build a team in the mid to high 30s given how bare the chest was around this time last year.

Denver Nuggets: D+
They had one job, and that was to get a guy who can guard big wings. It could have been a guy who can do it now (LRM, Thabo, PJ Tucker), or a guy who might be able to do it later (OG, trade for someone like Stanley Johnson, Andre Roberson offer sheet). And they did not. Their only thing resembling an NBA SF on the roster is Wilson Chandler on an expiring. They got punished by the Jazz in the Donovon Mitchell trade (I don’t hate Lyles or want to give up on him, but I don’t see how they have any playing time for him or how he isn’t duplicative with Juancho) and their pick of Lydon at that spot is looking like a lost cause already (of course you can’t give up, but through SL you have to imagine they’re not too happy, and his fit makes no sense anyway). They haven’t given too much money to Mason Plumlee (yet) and Millsap was a sweet signing, so hard to give them an F, but damn. They just had so many options and did few things good.

Detroit Pistons: D
How bad are these teams? SVG just keeps giving everyone like 50% too much money. Baynes, Leuer, Ish, Boban, now Langston Galloway. Hell they probably even overpaid for Anthony Tolliver (1/3.3) and Reggie Bullock (2/5). If you didn’t give all those bad players too much money maybe you’d have been able to pay your good player, instead of having to trade a good player on a good deal for his replacement with one less year cost controlled. I feel bad for teams like Detroit and Charlotte, little to no upside and little to no chance at a top 5 pick. SAD!

Golden State Warriors: B+
The Durant haircut is amazing, they probably paid slightly too much for Andre but he deserved it and it shouldn’t hurt them in the future, and otherwise they brought the band back together. I don’t understand the Nick Young thing but who cares. Omri Casspi on the minimum is criminal.

Houston Rockets: A+
I am not going to like how much money they give CP3 next summer and I think they ‘lost’ the trade on value alone, but you have to gamble at the top of the ‘wins bell curve’ and they did that successfully. The PJ Tucker and LRM signings HAD to be for less than was out there (PJ allegedly took 3/24 over 3/33, I refuse to believe someone didn’t offer ~3.5m/year to LRM). They just got a bunch of guys who can (in theory) stay on the court against the best teams in the league. And they suddenly match up favorably in a series with the Spurs, imo, who they’ll fight for #2 with (and lost to in the playoffs this year). It won’t work (if their goal is championship or bust), but props to Darryl for giving it a whirl.

Indiana Pacers: D-
I’m on Victor Oladipo island and I still can’t believe they didn’t get more for PG. No picks, no random fliers, just two young-ish guys with a moderate amount of upside. They did okay on the margins with DC (2/20) and Cojo and like the Hawks will probably win enough games to put themselves squarely in the middle of the lottery instead of the top. Shrug.

LA Clippers: C+
I have no idea how the CP3 negotiations went, but it’s unbelievable that they managed to get two awesome contracts, a decent young guy in Dekker, and a pick for a guy who was leaving town. If Blake is healthy I’d have them as favorites to make the playoffs… but Gallo will probably miss too many games and Austin Rivers will play more minutes than the three guards on the roster who are better than him. Giving Blake all that money is bad, but I’d have paid him whatever he wanted to stay if I was Ballmer as well.

LA Lakers: A
I have no idea who is making decisions here, but they made no missteps this offseason. Probably sold low on DAR, but I don’t mind a flier on Brook (maybe re-sign him cheap-ish if things go well and it’s not impossible to think that Lebron/PG like the idea of playing with him) and it was probably wise to just clear the backcourt for Lonzo. Their move down from 28 to 30 and 42 was awesome (I have no idea what Utah was doing there) and their pick at 30 has been summer league standout Kyle Kuzma who looks like a modern NBA forward and is already a better asset than Julius Randle. There’s no risk and high reward on KCP for 1 year. Their starting lineup makes some sense and they’ll probably win more games than people think.

Memphis Grizzlies: C
Yawn. They didn’t’ overpay Zach, which was nice, and it seems likely they’ll get JMG for a reasonable number. I was cool with the McLemore gamble for 2/10 that a lot of people seem to hate: He’s still young, can shoot, and is in theory kind of what they’ve needed for years. But even if the Grizz hand the PF keys to JMG, let TA walk, and move on from the grit n grind era: there isn’t much to be excited about as long as Chandler Parsons isn’t going to play like a league average starting wing.

Miami Heat: D
I guess Pat is old and wants to watch them maybe win a first round series for the next few years before descending into one of the worst situations in the entire league. This reminded me of the Bucks offseason last year: in isolation, the deals aren’t THAT bad. But cascading as a use of their capspace.. yuck. Dion for 4/52 has a shot at being okay if he plays like he did this year (I wouldn’t bet on it), Kelly for 4/50 is bad but again he fills a specific need (30 minutes of him at starting PF and backup C is probably pretty good vs the bottom 25 teams in the league), and James Johnson, coming off never being worth more than the minimum in his NBA career and over 30 years old, is worth 4/60 in no reality whatsoever. I’d rather have a plumbus.

Milwaukee Bucks: C
Have they even done anything? No real opinion on DJ Wilson and Snell’s contract (4/40?) seems totally fine for something between a bad starting SG and a good third wing.

Minnesota Timberwolves: B-
The Butler trade was awesome, getting a first for Ricky is fine in a vacuum and Jeff Teague might be an upgrade on fit if not talent, but what they’ve done since has been uninspiring. Drafting some guy I’ve barely heard of 16th who is a stiff C, signing Taj (who I don’t mind in a vacuum, but can’t shoot enough to play with that starting lineup), and not signing another wing who can shoot (CJ Miles would have been better than Taj for this team). Jamal Crawford is a guy who has gravity in theory, and might help their spacing on reputation alone, but they’ll just let him touch the ball too much. The Butler trade alone is enough to give them a passing grade, but I’m disappointed. Feels like an opportunity squandered for another coach/GM combo.

New Orleans Pelicans: C+
They had to give Jrue too much money, Rondo might be okay if he tries hard (I mean probably not and he probably won’t), and there wasn’t much room for moves on the margins (Dante Cunningham opted out, maybe he comes back for a similar number, he’s at least a warm body; Ian Clark fits and should play more than Rondo). This’ll be the team with the most raw talent that underperforms the most. If they could get 30 mpg of Quincy Pondexter’s best basketball ever I’d have a helluva lot more faith in them than I do. There is some upside here though, especially if their petition to the league office to play with a second basketball is granted.

New York Knicks: F
At least they didn’t re-sign Derrick Rose (unfortunately they did re-sign Ron Baker).

Oklahoma City Thunder: A+
Pilfered Paul George, signed Patrick Patterson to a half market value contract, brought back Roberson on something reasonable (3/30). I don’t really know much about Ferguson, but he seems like an okay gamble in theory. If it doesn’t work and RWB and PG both bolt this offseason, who cares? You go into pure rebuild mode. I’m not excited about paying RWB $40m when he’s 32 anyway.

Orlando Magic: C-
Isaac was the right pick, Jon Simmons was a nice deal, Shelvin Mack got too much but if they keep giving backup point guards too much money maybe one of them will pan out. They played okay in the second half of last season and with the rest of the East giving up this offseason it seems pretty likely they push for the playoffs and then pay Elf too much. I’m buying Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac but there isn’t a ton of creation upside on this team and they have like 1/3 of their money invested into some pretty forgettable center production. Give ‘em the 7 seed for the next few years until they have to rebuild again.

Philadelphia 76ers: B
Hard to fault anything they did (except probably the Amir Johnson contract), but it doesn’t feel like any big strides were made going forward (unless Markelle Fultz turns into an All NBA player, of course). I’d have probably rather made a fair offer for KCP (something like 3/50?) than rented JJ Redick for 1/23, but I understand they’re trying to preserve two max slots for next summer (for who exactly, I’m not quite sure).

Phoenix Suns: C
Josh Jackson pick was fine, the decision to take on bad money (though, uh, they haven’t done that yet) and not spend on Paul Millsap was good, and they haven’t overpaid Alex Len. Being stuck on neutral is better than what they’ve done the last few years. I’d have liked the rumored Bledsoe for #13 (Mitchell) and Mudiay. I don’t love the amount of guaranteed money Alan Williams got, but whatever.

Portland Trail Blazers: D
Slightly bad value trade in #15 and #20 for #10, but that could’ve been a decision based on roster spots. Zach Collins in that spot makes sense, and I don’t mind Biggie, but neither of those guys fits at all with their team as constructed. That’s okay I suppose, draft on talent. The Crabbe deal seems necessary and fine, though paying for the sins of last offseason leaves a sad taste in my mouth. Seems insane to me that they couldn’t get in on the PG sweepstakes. Evan Turner and all 3 firsts doesn’t get it done?

Sacramento Kings: D
I’m cool with the George Hill deal, one year of Vince (for way less money) is probably defensible, but Z-bo is not. Maybe he’s a great lockerroom guy at this stage of his career but you’re not going to actually win anything in the next two years, he probably won’t be an asset as an expiring next year, and he’s blocking minutes to a half dozen young guys that need them. And he’s getting iso post ups getting in the way of a bunch of PNR finishers they have on the roster. The draft was okay I guess. I don’t really understand the praise for their offseason though, seems like surprise that they had a bad offseason instead of a horrific one.

San Antonio Spurs: F-
This might have been the worst offseason in the league, on par with Cleveland’s (have to add gravity to good teams and take it away from teams like the Bulls who went from not mattering to mattering even less). The way I see it the Spurs had two paths: continue to contend this year, try to get a bit better on the margins while retaining Patty and Jon Simmons to multi year deals; or don’t commit to anything beyond this year and have an obscene amount of capspace for summer 2018. They did neither: they let Rudy Gay’s player option control some of their space next year, they gave Patty Mills a relatively fair 4/50 deal, they gave Pau Gasol the worst contract of the offseason (3/48, 6m guaranteed in year 3) and they let Jon Simmons walk. I actually don’t mind the gamble on Rudy Gay, though I don’t see how he’s effective at all this year coming off the Achilles, but nothing else makes any sense.

Toronto Raptors: C+
Hard to see what else they could do after watching Jimmy Butler and Paul George go West. Keeping Serge and Kyle’s deals to 3 years was good, CJ Miles fills a need, and it seems like they got unlucky to not get PJ Tucker back. They’ll be thin on guys who can guard really big wings, but so is nearly everyone else, and most of the league will be chalking up Ls to the Warriors, Spurs, and Cavs anyway. Would have liked to see them get someone like LRM or Thabo. OG was an amazing draft pick who in theory fills that spot… but he’s at least a few years away.

Utah Jazz: B
Kind of wild to give out a grade this good to a team that lost their best player in FA, but nearly everything else they did was awesome. Rubio is on a good contract for two years and will outperform a mediocre first on value alone. Lyles + 22 for Mitchell seems like a win (Mitchell was arguably the best player in SL). Thabo contract (2/10) seems reasonable and you can never have enough wing depth. Ingles was expensive (4/52) but they had to do it given Hayward equity (they are bffs). I think they’re the best of the 5 teams fighting for those two playoff spots, their defense should be outstanding. Had to dock them a half grade because not only does Tony Bradley seem like an uninteresting prospect, but the value of 30 and 42 for 28 is heinous.

Washington Wizards: C
Matched on Otto Porter, didn’t overpay Bogdonovich. I feel like maybe they signed a backup point guard but I don't even remember who. Yawn.

Last edited by aejones; 08-02-2017 at 03:17 PM.
08-02-2017 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinarocket
Losing Durant would make the warriors worse but not quite as worse as losing Harrison Barnes
nh
08-02-2017 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Charlotte Hornets: C+
What a boring ass place to be. Smashed the Dwight trade (should start calling it the Mason Plumlee trade since he’s the more important piece on a contract basis), but are totally capped out with no chance at HCA in the playoffs. The worst thing about the trade is that Cody Zeller will play less C this year (I’d consider starting them both, or maybe just move Cody to the bench, with both having durability issues I’d be pretty happy if neither cracked 30 mpg this year). MCW might be worth a flier, but probably not. Monk is probably fine for that slot and though I’m not a fan the fit is good. I think they basically sold down from #31 to #42 in the draft which is not a good look. I’m bored.
No chance at HCA? Boston & Cleveland are the locks but who else is there? Toronto/Washington I guess? I think Charlotte has some HCA equity. They're sneakily very deep. Kemba, Batum, MKG, Marvin, Dwight, Zeller, Lamb, Frank with the possibility of Monk (who I'm not high on, but he shouldn't have trouble scoring right away). I think Clifford is a good coach, and I think this is the year he proves it.

Quote:
Houston Rockets: A+
I am not going to like how much money they give CP3 next summer and I think they ‘lost’ the trade on value alone, but you have to gamble at the top of the ‘wins bell curve’ and they did that successfully. The PJ Tucker and LRM signings HAD to be for less than was out there (PJ allegedly took 3/24 over 3/33, I refuse to believe someone didn’t offer ~3.5m/year to LRM). They just got a bunch of guys who can (in theory) stay on the court against the best teams in the league. And they suddenly match up favorably in a series with the Spurs, imo, who they’ll fight for #2 with (and lost to in the playoffs this year). It won’t work (if their goal is championship or bust), but props to Darryl for giving it a whirl.
Do you think Houston is a lock to resign CP3? I'm sure they'll try, but this could very well be a 1 year thing depending on how it goes.

Quote:
LA Clippers: C+
I have no idea how the CP3 negotiations went, but it’s unbelievable that they managed to get two awesome contracts, a decent young guy in Dekker, and a pick for a guy who was leaving town. If Blake is healthy I’d have them as favorites to make the playoffs… but Gallo will probably miss too many games and Austin Rivers will play more minutes than the three guards on the roster who are better than him. Giving Blake all that money is bad, but I’d have paid him whatever he wanted to stay if I was Ballmer as well.
Then why the C+? It seems like you liked or at least approved of every move they made. I think the Clippers had a great offseason if you assume they were 100% losing CP3.

Quote:
New York Knicks: F
At least they didn’t re-sign Derrick Rose (unfortunately they did re-sign Ron Baker).
08-02-2017 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Hero
Durant is a very good help defender, he hasn't been nearly as good defensively as Lebron, in general. But sure, that's probably not going to be the case going forward
08-02-2017 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aejones
Brooklyn Nets: B+
Idk much about their first round pick but consensus doesn’t mind him. DAR was a nice haul for Brook. Demarre is probably an appropriate price to pay for those picks. Crabbe trade is okay, if he’s worth ~2/3 of contract, provides spacing for their young guys, is a good lockerroom/work ethic guy—it’s not like their capspace will be worth anything for the next 3 years anyway (there is some opportunity cost to using the Crabbe space on not taking on more bad money for assets). Their FO decisions have been so good since Marks got involved.
I think this is too generous since the Crabbe deal was a huge gift for the Blazers and had significant opportunity cost. Generally agree with the rest.

I also think I'd give the heat an F for concept and A for execution. Kind of a miracle they got all those guys to fit. Being able to keep Ellington is really nice, was sure he was gone. A lot of the 3s he takes are so hard as he's curling off screens and contorting his body. Takes a bunch from a per/36 perspective
08-02-2017 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffRas22
No chance at HCA? Boston & Cleveland are the locks but who else is there? Toronto/Washington I guess? I think Charlotte has some HCA equity. They're sneakily very deep. Kemba, Batum, MKG, Marvin, Dwight, Zeller, Lamb, Frank with the possibility of Monk (who I'm not high on, but he shouldn't have trouble scoring right away). I think Clifford is a good coach, and I think this is the year he proves it.
Bucks are better too, that's 5. They have to make up ~10 wins on those teams. How would you say they do that? Aside from (their second best player, who now can't play C because they brought in a big crybaby to play in front of him) Cody Zeller missing some middle portion of the season, they were relatively healthy iirc. The Wizards and Raptors probably both got better or stayed the same, so health being equal where do those 10 wins come from? Dwight? Malik Monk?

Of course they "could" get HCA, but on paper they're at best the 6th best team in the conference, I'd venture they're ~5-12% to get HCA, I think it's reasonable to infer that they won't.

edit: the Heat are better too. All 6 are in a vacuum favorites to win more games than the Hornets next year


Quote:
Do you think Houston is a lock to resign CP3? I'm sure they'll try, but this could very well be a 1 year thing depending on how it goes.
I wouldn't say lock but I'd imagine they'll have an inside track since they're likely to be very successful this season.


Quote:
Then why the C+? It seems like you liked or at least approved of every move they made. I think the Clippers had a great offseason if you assume they were 100% losing CP3.
Gallo is too much money in a vacuum, but they could be in the B range

edit: I should have mentioned this. It's a bad contract and he's not really a SF anymore. Even if you say it's an "okay" contract, I'd bet they were bidding against themselves.

Last edited by aejones; 08-02-2017 at 03:35 PM.
08-02-2017 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinivici9586
I think this is too generous since the Crabbe deal was a huge gift for the Blazers and had significant opportunity cost. Generally agree with the rest.

I also think I'd give the heat an F for concept and A for execution. Kind of a miracle they got all those guys to fit. Being able to keep Ellington is really nice, was sure he was gone. A lot of the 3s he takes are so hard as he's curling off screens and contorting his body. Takes a bunch from a per/36 perspective
It is true that the execution was great, but even if it's A/F the "plan" is so bad that how can I give anything but a **** grade for such a horrific plan.
08-02-2017 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Bucks are better too, that's 5. They have to make up ~10 wins on those teams. How would you say they do that? Aside from (their second best player, who now can't play C because they brought in a big crybaby to play in front of him) Cody Zeller missing some middle portion of the season, they were relatively healthy iirc. The Wizards and Raptors probably both got better or stayed the same, so health being equal where do those 10 wins come from? Dwight? Malik Monk?

Of course they "could" get HCA, but on paper they're at best the 6th best team in the conference, I'd venture they're ~5-12% to get HCA, I think it's reasonable to infer that they won't.

edit: the Heat are better too. All 6 are in a vacuum favorites to win more games than the Hornets next year
I think there's a couple reasons to believe they were much better than 36-46 last year. For starters, when teams are out of the playoff race their performance at the end of the season likely doesn't reflect their true level- they lost their last 5 games by an avg of 12 ppg. Not to mention, their actual W/L record was 6 games worse than their pythag.
08-02-2017 , 03:56 PM
Not sure how the Raps stayed the same or got better. Lost Patterson, Tucker, Joseph and Carroll and got back Miles.

Alan Williams at 5 million plus 2 unguaranteed years is good for the Suns.

Tim Frazier is Wiz backup.

And Heat off-season was a disaster. They are maybe the biggest free agent draw in the league relative to team talent and are seen as the place to go to up your value and they just took all that advantage away by committing to this team for the next 3 or 4 years.
08-02-2017 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneyball16
Not sure how the Raps stayed the same or got better. Lost Patterson, Tucker, Joseph and Carroll and got back Miles.

Alan Williams at 5 million plus 2 unguaranteed years is good for the Suns.

Tim Frazier is Wiz backup.

And Heat off-season was a disaster. They are maybe the biggest free agent draw in the league relative to team talent and are seen as the place to go to up your value and they just took all that advantage away by committing to this team for the next 3 or 4 years.
Tyler Johnsons contract goes from 5 to 20m. It was spend it or lose it. Imo their error was the Dragic trade (when they probably knew Bosh was done)
08-02-2017 , 04:16 PM
Lakers are back with L.B. He has been solid in the summer camps. Playoff bound again.
Big Baller Baby
08-02-2017 , 04:32 PM
Would you say the Lakers are swaggin
08-02-2017 , 04:58 PM
i think theres a real good chance boston has LAs pick in next year's draft is all im gonna say about that situation

      
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