i think the bref guys would concede that the hof probability calculator sorely underrates someone like manu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Hero
AI should be creating space, not using it. he had 9 freaking seasons below .520ts, spacing wouldn't magically make him grow a few inches
comparing their efficiency is tricky given relative usg and scoring environment. in iverson's defense for many years he played with offense killer larry brown and also played without a secondary creator, though the latter point is very likely his fault. many of his seasons look gross strictly on the basis of his ts%, but i don't think it's a coincidence that his ts% jumped into the .530-.540 range in the mid 2000s. we could attribute this to maybe larry brown being gone, or maybe to iguodala joining the sixers? might be pushing it to credit iggy a ton there since he was young and a low usg player, but he is a very smart and a good passer. i imagine he made life a lot easier for iverson offensively. iverson was also pretty efficient in his stint in denver (prob averaged a shade under 56% ts those two seasons). i think it's a little more complicated than saying "iverson was an inefficient player."
that is not to completely absolve iverson of this relatively poor efficiency. people defend it by saying he had to shoot that much because he had no one else, but that was at least in part b/c of him. this point is forgotten now, but the sixers actually drafted iverson to pair with stackhouse, but there was too much friction so they moved stackhouse. i don't think it's surprising that iverson put up a couple of his more efficient seasons playing with stackhouse (and coleman). still he liked to shoot a lot and it torpedoed his efficiency. that said i think you could construct a team where iverson has high, but not insanely high efficiency, and in that scenario he is likely an efficient player.
i'm inclined to believe kyrie would probably perform better relatively playing at iverson levels of usg, but his shot selection is a little sketchy so i don't think that's a lock. that point is moot though b/c you don't want either of them at that usg and kyrie has shown a willingness/ability to play with other high usg players (guess you could point to iverson in denver again here). we might be feeling kyrie a bit too much here anyway though b/c he gets to play as the second option with lebron. people prob have a very different opinion of kyrie if he is a #1 option
edit: bref hof calculator draws from leaderboards among other things. manu not really a bulk #s guy due to minutes, which is not sufficient reason for him to miss the hof, but is a fair criticism of his overall value
Last edited by tarheeljks; 06-15-2017 at 12:03 PM.