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Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

View Poll Results: Who's winning?
Heat in 4 11 9.24%
Heat in 5 34 28.57%
Heat in 6 21 17.65%
Heat in 7 6 5.04%
C's in 4 4 3.36%
C's in 5 0 0%
C's in 6 11 9.24%
C's in 7 8 6.72%
Heat in negative infinity 8 6.72%
lol East 16 13.45%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:28 PM   #5226
EYESCREW
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Ray Horton View Post
Magic choking or not doesn't really matter, cuz he isn't on the same star level as LBJ. Especially in 1980.
Magic was number one pick in the NBA draft and NBA finals MVP the same year. At that point I'd argue he was definitely as big of a deal then as LeBron is now. The fact the league wasn't as popular, something Magic helped change, and the Internet hadn't been invented yet isn't Magic's fault.

Also, LeBron is now celebrated as much for his failures as he is for his successes. Something Magic never had to deal with for obv reasons.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:30 PM   #5227
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

Magic was not the best player on his team. In the playoffs Kareem also dominated.

Magic may have been as big a deal story-wise (the reasons for why don't matter). He was not nearly as good as LBJ.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:34 PM   #5228
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

LeBron was also considered insanely clutch by everyone early in his career after the Detroit game. Then, he had a bad series against Dallas in the Finals and everyone jumped all over him. Same thing happened to Magic when he had a bad series against Boston in '84.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:36 PM   #5229
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

The best way for the Celtics to win this game would be to hire DeLonte West to sit courtside wearing a white t-shirt with LeBron's mom pictured on the front...
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:38 PM   #5230
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by EYESCREW View Post
Also, LeBron is now celebrated as much for his failures as he is for his successes. Something Magic never had to deal with for obv reasons.
Only around here and on First Take... I mean, people hate him because of the Decision and everything, but the guy has won three of the last four MVP awards and is widely recognized as the best player in the league. He's still a super decorated basketball player and I agree with the idea that a ring will solve nearly all his problems. And that will come, despite what you, SZ, and Skip Bayless want to think.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:45 PM   #5231
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Only around here and on First Take... I mean, people hate him because of the Decision and everything, but the guy has won three of the last four MVP awards and is widely recognized as the best player in the league. He's still a super decorated basketball player and I agree with the idea that a ring will solve nearly all his problems. And that will come, despite what you, SZ, and Skip Bayless want to think.


I never said LeBron wouldn't get a ring nor am I in any way trying to refute how great of a player he is. Keep putting words in my mouth though.

Also it's not only here and on TV that you see LeBron hate. Go to a local sports bar when the Heat are playing and you'll see plenty of casual fans rooting for him to fail. LeBron is so disliked in LA, Kobe fans jelly obv, many die-hard Lakers fans are pulling for the Celtics to beat the Heat.

And re: LeBron titling I definitely think he will at some point but it won't be this year. OKC is too stacked.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:48 PM   #5232
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

Eyescrew, admit you have serious schadenfreude issues with LBJ.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:48 PM   #5233
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Why? LeBron is amazing at making teams pay for doubling. Waids, on the other hand, ****s the bed and turns it over fairly often if you're pressuring him. I really think you have to live with it if he can drain those outside shots. It wasn't like he got a ton of dunks or easy layups last night. He was just simply outstanding on jump shots.
This.
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Originally Posted by iggymcfly View Post
LeBron was also considered insanely clutch by everyone early in his career after the Detroit game. Then, he had a bad series against Dallas in the Finals and everyone jumped all over him. Same thing happened to Magic when he had a bad series against Boston in '84.
And this, mostly. I'd add that "clutch" is the most subjective, confirmation-bias-prone adjective ever invented, and most casualfans won't be dissuaded by statistics. There are a lot of players who are overrated. LeBron isn't one of them. If anything, he's probably underrated by a lot of people because of the negative image he's developed for the last two years.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:57 PM   #5234
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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This.

And this, mostly. I'd add that "clutch" is the most subjective, confirmation-bias-prone adjective ever invented, and most casualfans won't be dissuaded by statistics. There are a lot of players who are overrated. LeBron isn't one of them. If anything, he's probably underrated by a lot of people because of the negative image he's developed for the last two years.
This one forever. Great post.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:59 PM   #5235
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by EYESCREW View Post
Also it's not only here and on TV that you see LeBron hate. Go to a local sports bar when the Heat are playing and you'll see plenty of casual fans rooting for him to fail. LeBron is so disliked in LA, Kobe fans jelly obv, many die-hard Lakers fans are pulling for the Celtics to beat the Heat.
He is absolutely hated, I said that in my original post. But that wasn't what you said. You said that he is celebrated as much for his failures as for his successes. That is absolutely not true. He just earned his 3rd MVP in 4 years and he is widely recognized as the best player in the league. You don't get to that point if your failures are highlighted as much as your successes. The amount of time devoted to Lebron's 4th quarter failures pales in comparison to the amount of time that the media and fans discuss his greatness and his position in history relative to the all-time greats.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:01 AM   #5236
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Eyescrew, admit you have serious schadenfreude issues with LBJ.
You're going to have dig awful hard to try to find some posts where I've said LeBron isn't the best player in the league. Perhaps you'll have to go back as far as 2008?

If you think I have issues because I root against LeBron then so be it. Lump me in with the other LeBron haters if it makes you feel better.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:03 AM   #5237
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

I deal with a lot of casual fans in my daily life down here and the south and I promise you Lebron is hated by almost everyone and they will do anything to knock him. And he's not even universally accepted as the best player in the NBA. God people are just so dumb what am I doing here.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:12 AM   #5238
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

You should probably just spend less time here and more time brushing up on your reading comprehension.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:24 AM   #5239
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Turn Prophet View Post
This.

And this, mostly. I'd add that "clutch" is the most subjective, confirmation-bias-prone adjective ever invented, and most casualfans won't be dissuaded by statistics. There are a lot of players who are overrated. LeBron isn't one of them. If anything, he's probably underrated by a lot of people because of the negative image he's developed for the last two years.
the best aspect of "clutch" is how you can actually play worse and become more clutch

suck it up so the game is close and then hit a GW and "clutch" even if you are 6-25 on the game, shoot 13-25 and win by 7 and not clutch just a normal game
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:28 AM   #5240
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by mjw0586 View Post
Only around here and on First Take... I mean, people hate him because of the Decision and everything, but the guy has won three of the last four MVP awards and is widely recognized as the best player in the league.
I think that casualfan.jpg had Kobe ahead of Lebron as recently as last season.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:28 AM   #5241
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by EYESCREW View Post
I never said LeBron wouldn't get a ring nor am I in any way trying to refute how great of a player he is. Keep putting words in my mouth though.

Also it's not only here and on TV that you see LeBron hate. Go to a local sports bar when the Heat are playing and you'll see plenty of casual fans rooting for him to fail. LeBron is so disliked in LA, Kobe fans jelly obv, many die-hard Lakers fans are pulling for the Celtics to beat the Heat.

And re: LeBron titling I definitely think he will at some point but it won't be this year. OKC is too stacked.
okc will remain stacked, so he will always have an uphill battle.

anyway, that la fans are nearly unanimously rooting for the celtics of all teams just shows how grate labron truly is.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:45 AM   #5242
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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okc will remain stacked, so he will always have an uphill battle.

anyway, that la fans are nearly unanimously rooting for the celtics of all teams just shows how grate labron truly is.
There's no denying his greatness and that definitely accounts for some of the hate but it's not just his greatness that gets the haters mad. It's things like "The Decision" and the "not 1, not 2, not 3, etc etc etc" that also account for some of the dislike.

You better than anybody can understand why most of Cleveland hates him.

He'll win a ring sooner or later then probably a second and at that point we'll have to deal with all of the people saying "I've always loved LeBron"...
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:52 AM   #5243
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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okc will remain stacked, so he will always have an uphill battle.
True but maybe next year Ibaka will be banged up with Bosh and Wade both healthy. A healthy Heat team can compete with OKC but not a banged up Heat team.

Also OKC has home court advantage but I'm no sure how big of a deal that is in a 2-3-2 format.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:52 AM   #5244
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

If the decision and not 1 make the haters so furious, that's stronger evidence that they're idiots than his greatness.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:59 AM   #5245
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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the best aspect of "clutch" is how you can actually play worse and become more clutch

suck it up so the game is close and then hit a GW and "clutch" even if you are 6-25 on the game, shoot 13-25 and win by 7 and not clutch just a normal game
yea this is a great point and it still amazes me how there is literally not one member of the mainstream NBA media who bothers to point this out
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:01 AM   #5246
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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I think that casualfan.jpg had Kobe ahead of Lebron as recently as last season.
prob still do

never underestimate the stupidity of casualfan.jpg!
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:01 AM   #5247
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

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If the decision and not 1 make the haters so furious, that's stronger evidence that they're idiots than his greatness.
Hate for players isn't always rational but there's no sense continuing the discussion. You're on a mission to convince the world LeBron James is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Far be it from me to try and convince you otherwise.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:04 AM   #5248
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

Labron is the best in the league hands down, which raises two questions:

1) Who's currently the 2nd best? Kevin Durant imo (is it even close?)

2) Where does Labron rank all time? All I know is Jordan is ahead of him. After Jordan it already becomes debatable.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:04 AM   #5249
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

Any guesses what the line on a Heat vs OKC series would be?

Any chance the Heat would be favored?
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:06 AM   #5250
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Re: NBA ECF: Heat vs Celtics

Who knows if the core of OKC can be kept together. Will Ibaka, Harden, etc. stay at a solid price that OKC can keep them all? We know Durant and Westbrook have big deals. Perkins has a pretty big deal himself. OKC could stick together or the salary cap could eventually split them up.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/oklahoma_city.htm
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