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View Poll Results: results of this series
cavs in 4 6 6.90%
cavs in 5 25 28.74%
cavs in 6 25 28.74%
cavs in 7 7 8.05%
celts in 4 2 2.30%
celts in 5 2 2.30%
celts in 6 8 9.20%
celts in 7 12 13.79%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-10-2010, 08:11 PM   #1801
Victor
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Fallen Hero View Post
players don't really "crash the boards" by playing position though, but it very obviously helps make a case for the value of a PG that rebounds well
ah, this is a good way to look at it.

still, i guess it would be better to compare ppp on rondo rbs vs other pgs.

i think it could be argued that pg rbs are farther away from the hoop therefore easier to start breaks with.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:12 PM   #1802
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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On the Celtics, no; for other rosters, yes.
chemistry issues aside. that is rediculous.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:13 PM   #1803
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Definitely.

Although its about impossible to tell still. Boston might be an above average running team, or same goes for Mavericks. So a PG rebound by them still might give more PPP than a rebound by the Spurs or a team that never runs, etc.

It is nearly impossible to isolate the event and see if it helped.

But logically and theoretically there is basically no reason, thought, or point that makes sense to say Rondo under the boards and crashing the boards(thus momentum going towards the opposite side of a fast break) is a good thing for fast breaks
I was thinking more along the lines of seeing Celtics and Mavericks ppp after defensive rebound, sorted by position.

And there's a very good reason why it would be better (theoretically), after getting a defensive rebound a pg will make better decisions than most wings while dribbling up court, and better long passes than most big man if the opportunity presents
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:14 PM   #1804
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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I am not giving a bad name to Celtic fans. People are twisting what I say. I don't think that CP3 is better than Rondo, and it would be great if people would stop acting like I said anything like that.
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Again, shooting is nice but the ability to defend and rebound is much more important.
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I would not trade him away for someone like CP3 who may be a lot better shooter and a little bit better passer but can't rebound at all or defend as well as Rondo, although CP3 may be the better choice on many rosters.
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Are you keeping in mind that Deron is the only one that can come close to guarding Rondo and that Rondo will out rebound all of them and guard them all well?
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I only mean to say that Rondo will guard them better than they will guard him.
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My only point here is that Rondo gets too much disrespect for lack of shooting, and not even respect for ability to rebound and ability to defend because rebounding and defense are more important than basketball than outside shooting.
these are all quotes by you and all range from wrong to laughably wrong
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:15 PM   #1805
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Please stop twisting things.

I have not once called anyone out or attacked any single person about not knowing basketball. I said, as you quoted, that if you think that in the game of basketball shooting the ball is more important than rebounding and defending, then you don't know it. It is up to you to determine if you disagree or agree with that

I said that in reference to basketball overall, not with regard to point guards, so again, stop twisting what is said.
lol no you didn't.

He responded to your post about Rondo and point guards where you say rebounding and defense are more important. He said if that were true Rondo would be a better PG than everyone else because he does those better. Then you responded saying if he thinks that he doesn't know basketball.

It was always about point guards, unless you specify "In general," then if you are responding to a post about point guards that was also responding to a post about point guards, then you were talking about point guards.

Ya dig?
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:15 PM   #1806
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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On the Celtics, no; for other rosters, yes.
lol
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:15 PM   #1807
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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chemistry issues aside. that is rediculous.
'Ridiculous' is a strong word. I can absolutely understand disagreement in the issue, and we can agree to disagree here, but it is certainly debatable; using the word 'ridiculous' is ridiculous.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:16 PM   #1808
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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'Ridiculous' is a strong word. I can absolutely understand disagreement in the issue, and we can agree to disagree here, but it is certainly debatable; using the word 'ridiculous' is ridiculous.
Nope
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:18 PM   #1809
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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lol no you didn't.

He responded to your post about Rondo and point guards where you say rebounding and defense are more important. He said if that were true Rondo would be a better PG than everyone else because he does those better. Then you responded saying if he thinks that he doesn't know basketball.

It was always about point guards, unless you specify "In general," then if you are responding to a post about point guards that was also responding to a post about point guards, then you were talking about point guards.

Ya dig?
I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about what I said or not, because I said it. If I said it in a way that misrepresented the idea or you mistakenly misinterpreted it, then I am sorry. I am telling you now that that idea is in reference to the game of basketball, not the role of a point guard, so take it as that please.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:18 PM   #1810
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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'Ridiculous' is a strong word. I can absolutely understand disagreement in the issue, and we can agree to disagree here, but it is certainly debatable; using the word 'ridiculous' is ridiculous.
it is ridiculous that u'd take a rondo over a healthy cp3, infact it's even more than just ridiculous

deron is closer as hes obv worse than cp3 but it's still a snap call for him over rondo on the celtics
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:22 PM   #1811
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

This Year's playoffs:

Orlando wins first 7 games by 10+

Last Year's:

Cavs win first 8 games by 10+

This year:

Cavs struggling with Celts in 2nd round

Last Year:

Orlando struggles with Celts in 2nd round.

Outcome:

Cavs advance to finals to lose to the Lakeshow?
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:23 PM   #1812
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
it is ridiculous that u'd take a rondo over a healthy cp3, infact it's even more than just ridiculous

deron is closer as hes obv worse than cp3 but it's still a snap call for him over rondo on the celtics
I just don't see it as ridiculous. It's a close one.

The C's are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and they benefit a lot by Rondo's ability to rebound as it's a pivotal part of the game. I am satisfied with the outside weapons that the Celtics have, and therefore I do not want to sacrifice rebounding for some outside shooting that Paul would bring. Again, it's close, but I don't think this is ridiculous.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:26 PM   #1813
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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I just don't see it as ridiculous. It's a close one.

The C's are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and they benefit a lot by Rondo's ability to rebound as it's a pivotal part of the game. I am satisfied with the outside weapons that the Celtics have, and therefore I do not want to sacrifice rebounding for some outside shooting that Paul would bring. Again, it's close, but I don't think this is ridiculous.
Paul isn't much worse in rebounding statistically, and thats assuming he is on a team that doesn't need it. Which means he could easily rebound better than Rondo if he was trying perhaps.

Not to mention the whole offensive side of the floor.

Which is why you are ridiculously wrong
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:30 PM   #1814
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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I just don't see it as ridiculous. It's a close one.

The C's are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and they benefit a lot by Rondo's ability to rebound as it's a pivotal part of the game. I am satisfied with the outside weapons that the Celtics have, and therefore I do not want to sacrifice rebounding for some outside shooting that Paul would bring. Again, it's close, but I don't think this is ridiculous.
it is beyond ridiculous, cp3 is almost as good (if not as good) at rebounding as rondo is, you wouldn't lose much if anything at all.

if you put cp3 on the c's instead of rondo our offense becomes MUCH better, now you can't sag off any of our perimiter guys as cp3/ray/pierce are all very good/great 3pt shooters and kg is money from long 2's as well. not to mention cp3 can create his own shot far better than rondo can (18.7 ppg on 58.4 TS% with a far lower TO% of 13.5 compared to rondo's 13.7 ppg on 54 TS% and 19.3 TO%)

our offense ranked 15th out of 30 in offensive rating this past year, replace cp3 with rondo and we are top 5 easily. the difference between cp3 and rondo on offense is massive.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:34 PM   #1815
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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This Year's playoffs:

Orlando wins first 7 games by 10+

Last Year's:

Cavs win first 8 games by 10+

This year:

Cavs struggling with Celts in 2nd round

Last Year:

Orlando struggles with Celts in 2nd round.

Yes it's true that it looks similar. But it's not predictive of anything at all. It's just a coincidence.

Also it's not entirely the same because Orlando won't be favored vs. the Cavs next round, Cleveland was huge favorites last year.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:35 PM   #1816
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Yes it's true that it looks similar. But it's not predictive of anything at all. It's just a coincidence.

Also it's not entirely the same because Orlando won't be favored vs. the Cavs next round, Cleveland was huge favorites last year.
Obv not predictive, I'm not ******ed lol
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:38 PM   #1817
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Schwallie View Post
This Year's playoffs:

Orlando wins first 7 games by 10+

Last Year's:

Cavs win first 8 games by 10+

This year:

Cavs struggling with Celts in 2nd round

Last Year:

Orlando struggles with Celts in 2nd round.

Outcome:

Cavs advance to finals to lose to the Lakeshow?
Forgot to mention..

Last year:

Magic dismantle Cavs in ECF
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:40 PM   #1818
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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these are all quotes by you and all range from wrong to laughably wrong
Some of those are just opinions, so I'll say "okay" to your disagreement.

But I am just going to focus on one aspect of that which is what is by far most important to me that people understand and that is when I said "Again, shooting is nice but the ability to defend and rebound is much more important." If you do not agree with that statement, there are some real issues in your understanding of the game of basketball.

The discussion is going in a very wrong direction, one in which I definitely did not intend which is a debate between Rondo and CP3.

It's clear that some here, not you in particular (although it seemed so a few times), that are more concerned with proving who has a bigger dick to the rest of the 2+2 community than actually discussion basketball. I'm not going to respond to people just straight up being asses anymore. Grow up and get an education if you are one of them (again not pointed at epipen).
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:42 PM   #1819
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Forgot to mention..

Last year:

Magic dismantle Cavs in ECF
I implied that with Cavs getting to lose to LAL this year in finals
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:43 PM   #1820
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

I agree with whoever said CP3 for Rondo (on Boston roster) makes them a Top 5 offense. CP3 isn't a serious threat from the arch, but he's a pretty good jump shooter from 18ft an under.

I watched A. Parker back off Rondo so far he was pretty much inside the FT Line, and Rondo turned down shot after shot. CP3 would of had a field day with 16ft jump shots.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:44 PM   #1821
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

salty,

most ppl on here do a good job of having nice arguments without being mean as long as the other person is bringing up good points/has a decent enough case

ur case is just really far out there and has no real backing, sometimes the masses of 2+2 are wrong but def not in this case imo
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:46 PM   #1822
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

salty you need to remove your UK homer glasses once in a while.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:46 PM   #1823
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Epi, salty isn't trying to be mean. He's actually pretty cordial. his take on the importance of defense/shooting just happens to be different from others.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:47 PM   #1824
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Epi, salty isn't trying to be mean. He's actually pretty cordial. his take on the importance of defense/shooting just happens to be different from others.
he's responding to salty saying others were mean
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:47 PM   #1825
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Epi, salty isn't trying to be mean. He's actually pretty cordial. his take on the importance of defense/shooting just happens to be different from others.
i never said he was, i was explaining why ppl were being mean to him
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