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View Poll Results: results of this series
cavs in 4 6 6.90%
cavs in 5 25 28.74%
cavs in 6 25 28.74%
cavs in 7 7 8.05%
celts in 4 2 2.30%
celts in 5 2 2.30%
celts in 6 8 9.20%
celts in 7 12 13.79%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-10-2010, 07:20 PM   #1776
salty7
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by alexstat View Post
wtf?
I am not going to take the time to explain this to you, but you are wrong for saying 'wtf' to it.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:21 PM   #1777
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Here's some stats for you:

Years Rondo played for Kentucky: 2
Years Chris Paul played for UK: 0

Ergo, in salty world, Rondo>>>>Paul

Last edited by Dudd; 05-10-2010 at 07:21 PM. Reason: I think I've cracked the code
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:22 PM   #1778
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Here's some stats for you:

Years Rondo played for Kentucky: 2
Years Chris Paul played for UK: 0

Ergo, in salty world, Rondo>>>>Paul
ugh.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:22 PM   #1779
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

lol college basketball
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:23 PM   #1780
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Here's some stats for you:

Years Rondo played for Kentucky: 2
Years Chris Paul played for UK: 0

Ergo, in salty world, Rondo>>>>Paul
yes u did crack it for sure. lol. good job. was really baffled but now its all clear.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:28 PM   #1781
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Dudd View Post
Here's some stats for you:

Years Rondo played for Kentucky: 2
Years Chris Paul played for UK: 0

Ergo, in salty world, Rondo>>>>Paul
It's so frustrating when people come into a thread and don't properly understand the discussion.

You come in here and make it seem like I actually stated that Rondo is a better point guard than Chris Paul. On the contrary, if you would actually look back, there is a post in which I stated that I think Chris Paul is better than Rondo.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:31 PM   #1782
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

this is getting epic failish imo

edit: just voted 5 stars
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:38 PM   #1783
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

the guy who said somethin about not wanting your PG to get rebounds because it takes away from fast breaks, have you ever seen rondo play? hell take a rebound and weave through the whole team and create a fast break. anyone whos watched rondo play in person, its unreal how fast he gets up the court. wthatever though, done arguin with a bunch of busto idiots.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:45 PM   #1784
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by i think ill pass View Post
the guy who said somethin about not wanting your PG to get rebounds because it takes away from fast breaks, have you ever seen rondo play? hell take a rebound and weave through the whole team and create a fast break. anyone whos watched rondo play in person, its unreal how fast he gets up the court. wthatever though, done arguin with a bunch of busto idiots.
and kbfc actually posted that fast break started from PG rebounds are more effective than fast breaks started from other rebounds, kind of hard to argue the point that pg's should try to catch less rebounds to improve the team's fast break,


PS: calling everyone ******ed and then not adding anything to the discussion is great way to get a ton of respect
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:50 PM   #1785
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Fallen Hero View Post
PS: calling everyone ******ed and then not adding anything to the discussion is great way to get a ton of respect
He did add, you may of missed it.

He said:

If Mo Willaims could bang 1/2 court 3's the Cavs would be better.

I shouldn't argue with bustos on the internet.

lol
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:51 PM   #1786
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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The last time they were in the finals the won an NBA championship.

Again, shooting is nice but the ability to defend and rebound is much more important.

For the record I do not think he is the best point guard in the league, but the people that have him at like 5th in their lists are way off and are way off because of their overreaction to lack of shooting and their underestimation of rebounding and defense.
Then tarheels responded with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheeljks View Post
if this were true rondo would be better than the guys ranked ahead of him
Meaning, since he defends and rebounds better, Rondo WOULD be the best PG in the league if they meant more than what shooting does. They don't so he isn't.

But you respond:

Quote:
Originally Posted by salty7 View Post
If you don't think that statement is true then you really don't know basketball. I'm sorry.
This is what I got into the discussion. You called someone out for something completely obvious. And you have been wrong the whole time. Rebounding is not more important than shooting for a point guard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by salty7 View Post
I am not sure why I get myself involved in these types of debates in which people twist and turn what is said in all different directions.

My only point here is that Rondo gets too much disrespect for lack of shooting, and not even respect for ability to rebound and ability to defend because rebounding and defense are more important than basketball than outside shooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salty7 View Post
Are you reading all of these posts in this discussion or are you just picking out ones that are easy for you to attack?

Rebounding is imperative, and it really doesn't matter a whole lot who does the job. If you had the choice you wouldn't want it to be your point guard, but if it is, it is.


It does matter who does it. That's why it isn't the most important factor(or close to it) for a point guard. That's why you don't see guys not getting drafted because as a point guard they don't rebound well.

Stop calling out people for "not knowing basketball" and I'll stop calling you out for not knowing basketball.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:52 PM   #1787
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Schwallie View Post
Chris Paul averages more rebounds than Rajon Rondo.
This doesn't reflect in 09/10 per possession stats, per 36m stats or bulk stats. Also, there is a significant difference in ORB% (Pauls 1.3 to Rondos 4.3), so I would need some convincing that Paul is the superior rebounder.

fwiw, I agree that it's not nearly as important than shooting, unless you want to become an NBA expert by sorting players by number of triple-doubles.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:55 PM   #1788
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

arg salty and i don't pass or w/e his name is are tilting me and giving an awful name to celtic fans, lol @ rebounding being more important than 3pt shooting for a pg (i'd snap trade rondos rebounding for cp3/nash's outside shooting as any sensible fan would), lol @ taking a current rondo over a current cp3/deron/nash and lol @ saying rondo can stop them but these guys can't stop him

first off news flash, cp3 is almost as good (if not as good) as a defender as rondo

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=rondora01

out of the 7 games they've played in their career h2h, cp3 has done better in 6 of them

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=rondora01

deron has also won the majority of his matchups vs rondo

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=rondora01

rondo has won most of his matchups vs nash however
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:55 PM   #1789
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Fallen Hero View Post
and kbfc actually posted that fast break started from PG rebounds are more effective than fast breaks started from other rebounds, kind of hard to argue the point that pg's should try to catch less rebounds to improve the team's fast break,


PS: calling everyone ******ed and then not adding anything to the discussion is great way to get a ton of respect
Come on, this data would obviously be skewed because of the league average point guard.

To lay it out: The league average point guard doesn't get many rebounds. He usually only gets long rebounds. That leads to fast breaks. So yes, an average point guard having a rebound come to him is likely OK. Rondo getting a bunch of offensive rebounds and rebounds under the basket make no sense in terms of improving fast breaks, as it would obviously be better if he was leaking to half court when the ball was coming down for a pass. Him having no momentum and getting a rebound underneath the basket makes no reason for anyone to believe that rebound is better for fast breaks than him leaking out with momentum to half court for a pass or something close to it.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:58 PM   #1790
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by lenC View Post
This doesn't reflect in 09/10 per possession stats, per 36m stats or bulk stats. Also, there is a significant difference in ORB% (Pauls 1.3 to Rondos 4.3), so I would need some convincing that Paul is the superior rebounder.

fwiw, I agree that it's not nearly as important than shooting, unless you want to become an NBA expert by sorting players by number of triple-doubles.
Why are you looking at 09/10? When Paul was injured, and using the season that was the reason for most saying Deron is better than him/etc. I used Rondo's this year and Paul's last healthy year(last year), and Paul came out ahead in TRB's.

I didn't need to look at the other parts or %'s, because it simply means they are close or comparable. Which means arguing Paul's outside shooting is 1 > than Rondo's rebounding for a team instead of >>>>>> is not a good argument.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:00 PM   #1791
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

ok im pretty sure the data actually just listed the ppp after a rebound by the different positions.

pg rebounds ahd the highest ensuing ppp.

lots of reasons for this but i think its quite a leap to think that proves teams should have their pgs crash the boards.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:04 PM   #1792
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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ok im pretty sure the data actually just listed the ppp after a rebound by the different positions.

pg rebounds ahd the highest ensuing ppp.

lots of reasons for this but i think its quite a leap to think that proves teams should have their pgs crash the boards.
players don't really "crash the boards" by playing position though, but it very obviously helps make a case for the value of a PG that rebounds well
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:05 PM   #1793
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
arg salty and i don't pass or w/e his name is are tilting me and giving an awful name to celtic fans, lol @ rebounding being more important than 3pt shooting for a pg (i'd snap trade rondos rebounding for cp3/nash's outside shooting as any sensible fan would), lol @ taking a current rondo over a current cp3/deron/nash and lol @ saying rondo can stop them but these guys can't stop him

first off news flash, cp3 is almost as good (if not as good) as a defender as rondo

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=rondora01

out of the 7 games they've played in their career h2h, cp3 has done better in 6 of them

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=rondora01

deron has also won the majority of his matchups vs rondo

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=rondora01

rondo has won most of his matchups vs nash however
I am not giving a bad name to Celtic fans. People are twisting what I say. I don't think that CP3 is better than Rondo, and it would be great if people would stop acting like I said anything like that.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:06 PM   #1794
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Fallen Hero View Post
players don't really "crash the boards" by playing position though, but it very obviously helps make a case for the value of a PG that rebounds well
Not really, read my reply just now.

It is likely very skewed because most rebounds from PGs come from long rebounds only. Most PG's don't focus on rebounds and that means most rebounds from the PG position in the league are going to come from long rebounds not from Rondo-type under the basket rebounds
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:07 PM   #1795
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Not really, read my reply just now.

It is likely very skewed because most rebounds from PGs come from long rebounds only. Most PG's don't focus on rebounds and that means most rebounds from the PG position in the league are going to come from long rebounds not from Rondo-type under the basket rebounds
well, in theory that might be the case, but I would like to see data specific to the Celtics and Mavericks for example, see how it compares to league wide numbers
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:07 PM   #1796
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by salty7 View Post
I am not giving a bad name to Celtic fans. People are twisting what I say. I don't think that CP3 is better than Rondo, and it would be great if people would stop acting like I said anything like that.
I think you mixed up your wording in this post.

Regardless you were giving it a bad name by calling out people for "not knowing basketball" when coming in with a viewpoint that had nothing to back it up and was wrong.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:08 PM   #1797
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by salty7 View Post
I am not giving a bad name to Celtic fans. People are twisting what I say. I don't think that CP3 is better than Rondo, and it would be great if people would stop acting like I said anything like that.
would you swap rondo for nash, cp3 or deron on this celtic team for the rest of the playoffs?
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:10 PM   #1798
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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well, in theory that might be the case, but I would like to see data specific to the Celtics and Mavericks for example, see how it compares to league wide numbers
Definitely.

Although its about impossible to tell still. Boston might be an above average running team, or same goes for Mavericks. So a PG rebound by them still might give more PPP than a rebound by the Spurs or a team that never runs, etc.

It is nearly impossible to isolate the event and see if it helped.

But logically and theoretically there is basically no reason, thought, or point that makes sense to say Rondo under the boards and crashing the boards(thus momentum going towards the opposite side of a fast break) is a good thing for fast breaks
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:10 PM   #1799
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Schwallie View Post
Then tarheels responded with:


Meaning, since he defends and rebounds better, Rondo WOULD be the best PG in the league if they meant more than what shooting does. They don't so he isn't.

But you respond:



This is what I got into the discussion. You called someone out for something completely obvious. And you have been wrong the whole time. Rebounding is not more important than shooting for a point guard.









It does matter who does it. That's why it isn't the most important factor(or close to it) for a point guard. That's why you don't see guys not getting drafted because as a point guard they don't rebound well.

Stop calling out people for "not knowing basketball" and I'll stop calling you out for not knowing basketball.
Please stop twisting things.

I have not once called anyone out or attacked any single person about not knowing basketball. I said, as you quoted, that if you think that in the game of basketball shooting the ball is more important than rebounding and defending, then you don't know it. It is up to you to determine if you disagree or agree with that.

I said that in reference to basketball overall, not with regard to point guards, so again, stop twisting what is said.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:11 PM   #1800
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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would you swap rondo for nash, cp3 or deron on this celtic team for the rest of the playoffs?
On the Celtics, no; for other rosters, yes.
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