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View Poll Results: results of this series
cavs in 4 6 6.90%
cavs in 5 25 28.74%
cavs in 6 25 28.74%
cavs in 7 7 8.05%
celts in 4 2 2.30%
celts in 5 2 2.30%
celts in 6 8 9.20%
celts in 7 12 13.79%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-06-2010, 11:43 PM   #1176
jmill
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by Schwallie View Post
Jesus just stop.

Kobe won rings when he was young with Shaq, and old with Pau.

What did he do when he was in his prime? Yes, first round exits or missing the playoffs.

His TEAM did it, not just him. If it was just him, he wouldn't have been sitting on his ass at home during the playoffs every year of his prime

Kobe does not get the rings argument. Jordan does.
His post isn't good, but neither is yours.

No one wins a ring by himself, except for Hakeem when Jordan decided to play baseball. (*cough*when stern made him take time off*cough*). It just doesn't happen.

In some of Jordans best years, similar to Kobe, he did nothing in the playoffs. Once the personnel around him got better (Pippen/Horace Grant/Zen Master), he started winning ships. Just like everyone else. Also doesn't hurt that he was the GOAT of course.

Here's what Jordan and the Bulls did in the playoffs in the three years prior to Pippen/HG becoming starters for the Bulls:

85- Jordan- 28/6.5/6, PER-26, TS%- .592, Bulls lose 3-1 in first round
87- Jordan- 37/5/5, PER-30, TS%- .562, Bulls swept first round
88- Jordan- 35/6/5.5, PER-31.7, TS%- .603, Bulls lose 4-1 2nd round
(Pippen/Horace both rookies, both come off bench)

And after

89- Jordan- 32/8/8, PER-31, TS%- .601, Bulls lose in EC finals
(Pippen/Horace both become starters)
91-93- Ownage

Sure seems like there's a correlation there. Also, you point out that Kobe won his last ship when he was old, but neglect to mention that 3 of MJs ships came when he was old and past his prime, and when he was younger (and better), he got bounced early in the playoffs every time. That is, until he got help.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:49 PM   #1177
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Kobe does not get the rings argument. Jordan does.
and Jordan didn't win rings in 4 of his best 5 seasons as an individual player, didn't hurt to get a HoF top 50 alltime sidekick lol
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:50 PM   #1178
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

BTW, despite being possibly my #1 player ever to build around if I was starting a franchise, Shaq's track record isn't that impressive when he's not playing with an elite SG. Just sayin.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:56 PM   #1179
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Because Kobe won 4 rings in the years before and after his prime.
You keep saying this, but it's not very accurate.

00 is still young Kobe with a somewhat reduced role. 01-02 Kobe is in line with his prime. 27/5/5 with a PER of 24 isn't just some sidekick who's along for the ride.
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:04 AM   #1180
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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BTW, despite being possibly my #1 player ever to build around if I was starting a franchise, Shaq's track record isn't that impressive when he's not playing with an elite SG. Just sayin.
lol
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:05 AM   #1181
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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lol
Indeed.
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:08 AM   #1182
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

lakers fans continuing their AIDSathon.
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:13 AM   #1183
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by jmill View Post
His post isn't good, but neither is yours.

No one wins a ring by himself, except for Hakeem when Jordan decided to play baseball. (*cough*when stern made him take time off*cough*). It just doesn't happen.

In some of Jordans best years, similar to Kobe, he did nothing in the playoffs. Once the personnel around him got better (Pippen/Horace Grant/Zen Master), he started winning ships. Just like everyone else. Also doesn't hurt that he was the GOAT of course.

Here's what Jordan and the Bulls did in the playoffs in the three years prior to Pippen/HG becoming starters for the Bulls:

85- Jordan- 28/6.5/6, PER-26, TS%- .592, Bulls lose 3-1 in first round
87- Jordan- 37/5/5, PER-30, TS%- .562, Bulls swept first round
88- Jordan- 35/6/5.5, PER-31.7, TS%- .603, Bulls lose 4-1 2nd round
(Pippen/Horace both rookies, both come off bench)

And after

89- Jordan- 32/8/8, PER-31, TS%- .601, Bulls lose in EC finals
(Pippen/Horace both become starters)
91-93- Ownage

Sure seems like there's a correlation there. Also, you point out that Kobe won his last ship when he was old, but neglect to mention that 3 of MJs ships came when he was old and past his prime, and when he was younger (and better), he got bounced early in the playoffs every time. That is, until he got help.
Ok,

Jordan doesn't get to use that argument either
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:14 AM   #1184
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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You keep saying this, but it's not very accurate.

00 is still young Kobe with a somewhat reduced role. 01-02 Kobe is in line with his prime. 27/5/5 with a PER of 24 isn't just some sidekick who's along for the ride.
24 PER's lol.

Meh I looked up his TS, eFG, and put some USG stats in there a while back and it came up with 30 results in those years. Assuming they could've likely downgraded from Kobe and still won, there were like 15 other players they could've put there to win as well
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:15 AM   #1185
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Ok,

Jordan doesn't get to use that argument either
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:17 AM   #1186
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Meh I looked up his TS, eFG, and put some USG stats in there a while back and it came up with 30 results in those years. Assuming they could've likely downgraded from Kobe and still won, there were like 15 other players they could've put there to win as well
You two have fun.

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Old 05-07-2010, 12:57 AM   #1187
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Yea, I'm not saying Kobe sucked. I'm saying his "best" years didn't win him any RANGZ. Because no one's best years do that alone. LeBron almost proved that wrong with the one finals run, but had no chance in the end.

Anyone using RANGZ to prove anyone is better is stupid. The only way you can bring that in, IMO, I guess is if it was like someone brought up before. If the team was championship-caliber and only lost because the #1 option in question falters and plays horribly for like 6 years, the knock him down a notch.

But RANGZ to prove how good someone is seems worthless. I think most intelligent posters already know this, so I'm probably not arguing with anyone but the dumb ones at this point.

I admit I was wrong about Jordan being able to use the argument though, and change my stance from him to no one. (I guess someone like Hakeem might have counted, but eff him)
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:24 AM   #1188
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Yea, I'm not saying Kobe sucked. I'm saying his "best" years didn't win him any RANGZ. Because no one's best years do that alone. LeBron almost proved that wrong with the one finals run, but had no chance in the end.
Yea, even Bron's run isn't too surprising to me. The first two teams they beat were 41 win teams with negative PDs. Kobe's two 1st round exits were against 54 and 61 win Suns teams.

HOWEVER, the Detroit series must be mentioned. He was a monster from game 3 on in that series, and I will give him props accordingly. Game 5 in Detroit. Just lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwallie
Anyone using RANGZ to prove anyone is better is stupid. The only way you can bring that in, IMO, I guess is if it was like someone brought up before. If the team was championship-caliber and only lost because the #1 option in question falters and plays horribly for like 6 years, the knock him down a notch.

But RANGZ to prove how good someone is seems worthless. I think most intelligent posters already know this, so I'm probably not arguing with anyone but the dumb ones at this point.
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:48 AM   #1189
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

jmill 4 pres!!
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:06 AM   #1190
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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+1 Its the same thing as Kobe being overrated. Because Kobe won 4 rings in the years before and after his prime. Garnett won 1, and it was of course "because of his teammates."

If Garnett won 2 in his first couple years in the league, he is ranked way higher, even though it's obvious his team won/lost those rings and he would've been a 2nd fiddle at that point.
meh i'm a garnett fan but i don't see how hes better than any of my top 9 which i listed previously, his TS% leaves a ton to be desired (54.8% career) and while his turnovers numbers are very good so are other elite bigmens. obv his passing is sick but his passing alone isn't enough imo.

like how he is better than david robinson who was 9th on my list for example? drob 58.3% career TS, same turnover numbers, drob was a much better scorer during his prime too with a much higher ppg while also being more efficent and as great as a defender as kg is drob was prob slightly better. both were beast rebounders and while kg's numbers are slightly higher he played with 0 other rebounders which inflates his rebounds a bit especially since robinson's 2 lowest rebounding years in the middle of his career came when he was playing alongside rodman. only edge kg really has is passing with a slight edge in rebounding, not enough to make up the bigger difference in scoring and the slight difference in defense imo

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:10 AM   #1191
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

yea i got so tilted when idiots say oh lebron's team is better than kobe's and use wins to back it up, lol the lakers cast is a legit championship contender and is stacked, the cavs cast is far worse. the only reason the cavs have more wins than the lakers for the past 2 years is cause lebron >>> kobe

if lebron wins it all this year with the crap championship contending cast he has it will be one of the greatest accomplishments in all of sports history

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:23 AM   #1192
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

#1 reason kobe is drastically overrated, gather around and listen children

it's cause he constantly takes the toughest shots i've ever seen, yeah he makes a good amount of them so it makes it look to the casual viewer like hes goat. however when u look at the stats u realize kobe is not that impressive, his 55.7 career TS% is awful to be considered an all time great offensive player

there is way more value in creating an easy shot for urself like all the true great scorers constantly did than creating a hard one like kobe does. this isn't a game of horse, this is basketball. and thats why pretty much all the great scorers all have at least 58+ TS% (and most have 60+%) which is a huge gap between them and kobe.
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:13 PM   #1193
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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On this note, while we're sidetracked, is having Oscar in my Top 3 all that bad?
Yes. Kobe > Oscar imo, but both are not top 10.

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ok now u have the 2nd pick in the draft as mj was already taken, who do u take?
I'll take shack. It's my personal preference
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:54 PM   #1194
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Yea I think Oscar is >>>>overrated
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:02 PM   #1195
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by jmill View Post
BTW, despite being possibly my #1 player ever to build around if I was starting a franchise, Shaq's track record isn't that impressive when he's not playing with an elite SG. Just sayin.
???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwallie View Post
Robinson always underrated(Maybe not at 37), but he always seemed underrated to me
Quote:
Originally Posted by EPiPeN11
if lebron wins it all this year with the crap championship contending cast he has it will be one of the greatest accomplishments in all of sports history
schwallie, this is sort of what i was getting at wrt my post about duncan. lebron winning a ship this year would be sick when you compare his supporting casts to those some of the teams he will have to beat. duncan's supporting cast was kind of trashy in 02-03
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:07 PM   #1196
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics


in case anyone forgot. i like celtics to win tonght.
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:23 PM   #1197
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics


in case anyone forgot. i like celtics to win tonght.
well yeah now that the absurd 3day break is over we might be able to get back on track lol
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:26 PM   #1198
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

BOS is -1 tonight. What would be the spread if Lebron was 100% healthy. Cavs -2?
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:36 PM   #1199
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Yea I think Oscar is >>>>overrated
well, he had very low WIM ldo

Proof::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Mi...asketball_team
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:36 PM   #1200
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

i dont know whats more incredibly tilting the people that use the phrase 'best closer in the game' to describe kobe or the haters that always immidiately link that ****in 82games chart as if a sample size of 50 shots all of a sudden means something when it supports your argument

Last edited by goodlookskid; 05-07-2010 at 02:37 PM. Reason: this has nothing to do with this series, just responding to gay arguments from last page
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