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View Poll Results: results of this series
cavs in 4 6 6.90%
cavs in 5 25 28.74%
cavs in 6 25 28.74%
cavs in 7 7 8.05%
celts in 4 2 2.30%
celts in 5 2 2.30%
celts in 6 8 9.20%
celts in 7 12 13.79%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-06-2010, 05:33 PM   #1126
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by EPiPeN11 View Post
ok, well for one i'll keep lebron off it just cause hes the hardest player to rank ie. hasn't played long enough. but basacally if he doesn't get hurt in the next 5 years hes easily on it and prob top 2.

1. jordan
2. wilt
3. shaq
4. kareem
5. duncan
6. hakeem
7. magic
8. bird
9. drobinson
10. super tough i think those are the clear top 9, it could be a # of guys here ie. kg, barkley, both malones, oscar, stockton etc i'll go with kg tho

was off the top of my head too so i could be forgetting someone obvious

basacally these guys are all super hard to rank and i could see a case for anything out of the top 3 being changed, like u could name anyone from 4-9 and put them at #4 and i couldn't really argue with it.
LOL @ having a list with Shaq, Robinson and Duncan AND NOT having Bill Russell.

I don't think Russell is greater than MJ, So I would place him number 2, simply because he DOMINATED his era. Even the great Wilt had trouble against him.

Anyways, everyone's list should/will be different, simply because basketball/sports is like Religion or Politics, each person will have their own opinion.

EDIT: I remember watching NBAtv and they said that Kareem had never won a championship until Magic showed up. So wouldn't that put guys like Wilt, Russell, Shaq and even Hakeem, ahead of Kareem?

Last edited by SchererBoy; 05-06-2010 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:51 PM   #1127
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

tommy heinsohn brought up a good point about russell vs wilt. wilt may have scored more points, but off the stat sheet, russell stopped so many points from happening on defense that he created a much bigger point differential in games then wilt.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:57 PM   #1128
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Wait, I just read this...You guys have KG>>> Kobe and/or Duncan? KG might have been a good basketball player and a great defender, but he never did anything with the teams he was on. At one point the guy couldn't get out of the first round. So it's not like he was doing all this winning despite being on a really bad team. When he made it to Boston they had (including him) 3 HOF, and an upcoming PG.

I think Kobe won the Player of the Decade because of making 6 Finals appearances. He won 4/6 and Duncan "only" made 3. Also, you have to consider the markets in which they play, San Antonio isn't New York or anything, hell it's not even Houston.

And, I said LBJ had played 7 seasons which wasn't half of Kobe's 14, I meant including Kobe's playoff games. 6 Finals runs is almost 1.5 seasons, not including the rest of the years. So ya, it looked dumb because I didn't clarify it correctly lol
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:00 PM   #1129
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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lol

Epi where would russell be in your top 100?
prob around 20-25 range
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:02 PM   #1130
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by SchererBoy View Post
Wait, I just read this...You guys have KG>>> Kobe and/or Duncan? KG might have been a good basketball player and a great defender, but he never did anything with the teams he was on. At one point the guy couldn't get out of the first round. So it's not like he was doing all this winning despite being on a really bad team. When he made it to Boston they had (including him) 3 HOF, and an upcoming PG.

I think Kobe won the Player of the Decade because of making 6 Finals appearances. He won 4/6 and Duncan "only" made 3. Also, you have to consider the markets in which they play, San Antonio isn't New York or anything, hell it's not even Houston.

And, I said LBJ had played 7 seasons which wasn't half of Kobe's 14, I meant including Kobe's playoff games. 6 Finals runs is almost 1.5 seasons, not including the rest of the years. So ya, it looked dumb because I didn't clarify it correctly lol
no one cares about Kobe, no one was discussing Kobe, he does not belong in the same conversation as Duncan and KG for player of the decade, go away
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:02 PM   #1131
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Originally Posted by SchererBoy View Post
LOL @ having a list with Shaq, Robinson and Duncan AND NOT having Bill Russell.

I don't think Russell is greater than MJ, So I would place him number 2, simply because he DOMINATED his era. Even the great Wilt had trouble against him.

Anyways, everyone's list should/will be different, simply because basketball/sports is like Religion or Politics, each person will have their own opinion.

EDIT: I remember watching NBAtv and they said that Kareem had never won a championship until Magic showed up. So wouldn't that put guys like Wilt, Russell, Shaq and even Hakeem, ahead of Kareem?
lol @ having russell higher than shaq/robinson/duncan

russell played with 239872 hall of famers in a 6-8 team league. he also was horrible on offense and wilt might have had "trouble" against him but he still scored a ton of points on wilt. Infact he abused russell countless times and the celtics were ok with that cause they would keep all of wilt's teammates in check.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:10 PM   #1132
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

some of duncan's supporting casts have been overrated imo. when they won in 02-03 david robinson was the 2nd best player. he was 37 and still good but nowhere near great while parker and ginobili were only decent at that stage. that team played the nets (lol) in the nba finals, but beat the defending champ lakers en route and duncan absolutely beasted those playoffs. obligatory lol per but look at the playoff #'s for the spurs that year

edit:

01-02 (lost to lakers in 5 in rd 2)

Code:
Rk	Player	Age	G	MP	PER ▾	TS%	eFG%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48
1	Tim Duncan	25	9	380	31.8	.550	.456	8.5	31.2	19.8	25.2	0.9	7.5	14.1	33.5	109	94	1.1	0.8	2.0	0.247
2	Malik Rose	27	10	292	21.2	.547	.479	10.6	20.7	15.6	9.1	1.9	1.2	9.2	21.6	115	100	0.8	0.4	1.2	0.199
3	Antonio Daniels	26	10	224	18.3	.548	.494	1.5	12.5	7.0	12.7	1.7	1.0	5.5	19.8	116	104	0.5	0.2	0.8	0.163
4	Tony Parker	19	10	341	16.4	.523	.493	1.7	8.2	4.9	23.3	1.5	0.2	12.9	24.2	103	106	0.4	0.2	0.6	0.088
5	Steve Smith	32	10	298	14.3	.514	.425	5.4	7.8	6.6	9.9	1.5	0.2	6.5	17.4	114	106	0.6	0.2	0.8	0.127
6	Charles Smith	26	4	19	13.3	.644	.667	12.1	6.1	9.1	18.1	5.9	3.8	43.6	17.6	89	94	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.065
7	David Robinson	36	4	81	12.6	.434	.474	8.5	24.4	16.4	10.7	2.1	2.7	8.8	13.6	99	97	0.0	0.1	0.2	0.102
8	Bruce Bowen	30	10	345	9.1	.506	.500	3.0	8.1	5.5	6.6	1.8	1.5	9.4	10.4	106	105	0.2	0.3	0.5	0.074
9	Mark Bryant	36	9	91	8.5	.464	.450	10.1	5.1	7.6	1.9	0.6	1.6	4.2	12.6	109	108	0.1	0.0	0.1	0.075
10	Terry Porter	38	10	131	7.2	.449	.443	0.9	7.1	4.0	10.4	1.7	0.0	12.0	15.5	90	106	-0.1	0.1	0.0	0.010
11	Danny Ferry	35	10	155	4.7	.403	.409	3.7	11.2	7.5	8.3	0.0	0.5	5.4	11.5	96	108	0.0	0.1	0.1	0.023
12	Cherokee Parks	29	5	43	1.3	.277	.286	8.0	21.6	14.8	0.0	0.0	3.4	12.2	18.5	63	102	-0.2	0.0	-0.1	-0.119

02-03 (rangz)

Code:
Rk	Player	Age	G	MP	PER ▾	TS%	eFG%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48
1	Tim Duncan	26	81	3181	26.9	.564	.515	9.9	27.3	19.0	19.5	0.9	5.2	12.9	28.0	112	94	9.5	6.9	16.5	0.248
2	David Robinson	37	64	1676	17.8	.531	.469	11.8	22.8	17.6	5.9	1.7	4.6	13.9	16.5	109	95	2.5	3.6	6.0	0.172
3	Tony Parker	20	82	2774	16.5	.542	.503	1.4	7.3	4.5	27.9	1.4	0.1	14.5	22.9	108	104	5.1	2.6	7.7	0.134
4	Malik Rose	28	79	1933	16.1	.538	.460	9.3	20.5	15.2	11.0	1.6	1.4	18.2	22.4	102	98	1.9	3.3	5.2	0.130
5	Speedy Claxton	24	30	471	15.9	.509	.462	5.7	8.0	6.9	26.9	2.5	1.0	17.1	20.2	105	101	0.6	0.6	1.2	0.125
6	Manu Ginobili	25	69	1431	14.7	.556	.503	4.0	8.8	6.5	15.8	3.6	0.8	17.5	18.5	106	98	1.8	2.4	4.2	0.141
7	Stephen Jackson	24	80	2254	14.5	.526	.493	3.6	10.8	7.4	14.1	3.0	0.9	16.4	22.1	99	99	1.2	3.6	4.8	0.102
8	Devin Brown	24	7	22	13.8	.551	.500	22.1	15.1	18.4	18.0	0.0	0.0	31.5	33.5	89	104	0.0	0.0	0.0	-0.023
9	Kevin Willis	40	71	840	12.5	.506	.479	12.0	18.8	15.6	4.9	1.3	1.7	17.0	19.5	98	99	0.2	1.3	1.6	0.091
10	Steve Smith	33	53	1032	12.0	.528	.455	2.5	8.4	5.6	10.9	1.4	0.6	11.2	17.3	109	103	1.4	1.1	2.5	0.117
11	Steve Kerr	37	75	952	11.4	.552	.525	1.5	5.6	3.7	11.9	1.5	0.2	11.4	14.9	111	105	1.3	0.9	2.2	0.109
12	Bruce Bowen	31	82	2566	9.1	.563	.571	2.8	7.8	5.4	6.8	1.4	1.1	12.2	10.7	110	103	2.4	2.7	5.1	0.096
13	Danny Ferry	36	64	601	5.1	.459	.440	4.0	10.1	7.2	5.3	0.6	1.0	17.2	12.1	90	104	-0.2	0.6	0.3	0.028
14	Anthony Goldwire	31	10	51	2.5	.318	.333	0.0	6.5	3.4	9.3	3.1	0.0	9.6	19.0	69	101	-0.1	0.1	-0.1	-0.069
15	Mengke Bateer	27	12	46	-8.4	.252	.265	5.3	19.2	12.6	13.5	0.0	0.0	25.1	24.1	53	102	-0.3	0.1	-0.2	-0.248
he carried them big time

Last edited by tarheeljks; 05-06-2010 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:11 PM   #1133
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

epinen the reason i say you and many others are ******s is that you are talkin about **** that happened in the 60s with such assertion. i wouldnt even dare make a list of GOAT because i cant speak about stuff pre 1995 with all the facts. i doubt you are an old guy or have watched tons and tons of tapes of every team that played 30-50 years ago so how the hell do you expect to have any credibility with your statements? what id appreciate is if you can explain to me what russell did bad on offense, give more insight into the "countless" times wilt abused russell, and talk about the specific other player matchups which allowed celtics to still do okay.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:15 PM   #1134
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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epinen the reason i say you and many others are ******s is that you are talkin about **** that happened in the 60s with such assertion. i wouldnt even dare make a list of GOAT because i cant speak about stuff pre 1995 with all the facts. i doubt you are an old guy or have watched tons and tons of tapes of every team that played 30-50 years ago so how the hell do you expect to have any credibility with your statements? what id appreciate is if you can explain to me what russell did bad on offense, give more insight into the "countless" times wilt abused russell, and talk about the specific other player matchups which allowed celtics to still do okay.
thats fair, most of the stuff is just from looking at stats/hearing stories being a celtics fan. i do agree that we shouldnt include guys pre 1980 as they are too hard to rank.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:16 PM   #1135
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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epinen the reason i say you and many others are ******s is that you are talkin about **** that happened in the 60s with such assertion. i wouldnt even dare make a list of GOAT because i cant speak about stuff pre 1995 with all the facts. i doubt you are an old guy or have watched tons and tons of tapes of every team that played 30-50 years ago so how the hell do you expect to have any credibility with your statements? what id appreciate is if you can explain to me what russell did bad on offense, give more insight into the "countless" times wilt abused russell, and talk about the specific other player matchups which allowed celtics to still do okay.
actually if you didn't just show up to bandwagon during the playoffs you would know that these discussions generally have a HUGE "different era's" disclaimer, no one really discuss those guys or try to compare them
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:21 PM   #1136
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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lol @ having russell higher than shaq/robinson/duncan

russell played with 239872 hall of famers in a 6-8 team league. he also was horrible on offense and wilt might have had "trouble" against him but he still scored a ton of points on wilt. Infact he abused russell countless times and the celtics were ok with that cause they would keep all of wilt's teammates in check.
Wilt took 62 shots to score 100 points, and also took 32 FTs, which is another 10-16 (give or take) shot attempts, depending on how he was fouled. If ANY player did that nowadays they would be given hell for it. If LBJ, Kobe, Durant or anyone else takes 75 shots, that would be the number they talked about, not the points, not in this day and age.

You speak of this beating that Wilt put on Russell like you're 100% sure on what happened. You don't know what the **** you're talking about dude.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:22 PM   #1137
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

bandwagon? **** you. ive been a loyal celtics fan since i was 8 years old when it was kenny anderson dana barros toine potepenko mccarty, watched just about every game when we were 2nd worst team with all the young guys. f u. lmb.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:29 PM   #1138
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Wilt took 62 shots to score 100 points, and also took 32 FTs, which is another 10-16 (give or take) shot attempts, depending on how he was fouled. If ANY player did that nowadays they would be given hell for it. If LBJ, Kobe, Durant or anyone else takes 75 shots, that would be the number they talked about, not the points, not in this day and age.

You speak of this beating that Wilt put on Russell like you're 100% sure on what happened. You don't know what the **** you're talking about dude.
have you noticed that nobody has agreed with you, while multiple people have disagreed? jw

not that this always matters but when a lot of the people here are above average nba fans it should make you question your ******ed thoughts
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:31 PM   #1139
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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tommy heinsohn brought up a good point about russell vs wilt. wilt may have scored more points, but off the stat sheet, russell stopped so many points from happening on defense that he created a much bigger point differential in games then wilt.
It would be a great point if true.

Last edited by ClarkNasty; 05-06-2010 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Too bad it's obv not true.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:33 PM   #1140
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Wilt took 62 shots to score 100 points, and also took 32 FTs, which is another 10-16 (give or take) shot attempts, depending on how he was fouled. If ANY player did that nowadays they would be given hell for it. If LBJ, Kobe, Durant or anyone else takes 75 shots, that would be the number they talked about, not the points, not in this day and age.

You speak of this beating that Wilt put on Russell like you're 100% sure on what happened. You don't know what the **** you're talking about dude.
that's true i don't really know what i'm talking about from 1960s basketball, none of us do

however i know what i'm talking about from anything 1990+ basketball and from listening to u talk itt it's clear u have no ****ing clue what you're talking about in that regard either
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:36 PM   #1141
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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that's true i don't really know what i'm talking about from 1960s basketball, none of us do

however i know what i'm talking about from anything 1990+ basketball and from listening to u talk itt it's clear u have no ****ing clue what you're talking about in that regard either
Ya, your Top 10 list clearly proves that lol
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:36 PM   #1142
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Wilt took 62 shots to score 100 points, and also took 32 FTs, which is another 10-16 (give or take) shot attempts, depending on how he was fouled. If ANY player did that nowadays they would be given hell for it. If LBJ, Kobe, Durant or anyone else takes 75 shots, that would be the number they talked about, not the points, not in this day and age.

You speak of this beating that Wilt put on Russell like you're 100% sure on what happened. You don't know what the **** you're talking about dude.
62+(32x.44)=76.08
100x50=5000

5000/76.08=657 true shooting percentage

in an era where ppl sucked at scoring.

even today this board would be slurping all over such a performance.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:40 PM   #1143
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Oh I know the stats and #'s for the game, it was a sick performance. He also shot 28/32 from the FT Line, which is crazy for a 7ft. Center. I never said he didn't have a spectacular game.

But Epi is talking about Wilt v. Russell battles as if he seen them. It's sickening to read some of the **** he says. For a Mr. Knowitall he doesn't back anything up with facts
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:41 PM   #1144
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

calm down tiger

anyway which players on my top 10 who played in 1990+ was kobe better than? i'd love to hear u back those up with facts, i'm sure ur expert use of FG% would have us all in awe
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:42 PM   #1145
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

epi is right tho.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:44 PM   #1146
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Oh I know the stats and #'s for the game, it was a sick performance. He also shot 28/32 from the FT Line, which is crazy for a 7ft. Center. I never said he didn't have a spectacular game.

But Epi is talking about Wilt v. Russell battles as if he seen them. It's sickening to read some of the **** he says. For a Mr. Knowitall he doesn't back anything up with facts
not that he needs a defense attorney, but weren't you the one that brought up a player from a different era and basically proclaimed everyone a moron because he wasn't in it? You seem to be the one with extensive knowledge of the 60's
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:44 PM   #1147
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Your list is only 1990+?

You had Wilt + Kareem on there
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:47 PM   #1148
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

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Your list is only 1990+?
no I was saying which players who played in 1990 from my list do u think kobe is better than? do you think hes better than jordan, shaq, duncan, hakeem, drob, kg? i won't count magic/bird since they were tail end career guys.

state which players hes better than and pls back them up with facts
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:47 PM   #1149
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Somewhere on the internet I recall seeing a summary of Russell v Wilt h2h stats for their career. Can't find it atm though.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:50 PM   #1150
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Re: NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics

Jordan is the only who played the same position, and he's not that good obv.

The rest all play diff. positions, and are asked to do different things. So if I were to choose someone off that list it would be a personal preference, and I wouldn't be able to back it with facts or anything since they have to perform differently.
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