His post isn't good, but neither is yours.

No one wins a ring by himself, except for Hakeem when Jordan decided to play baseball. (*cough*when stern made him take time off*cough*). It just doesn't happen.

In some of Jordans best years, similar to Kobe, he did nothing in the playoffs. Once the personnel around him got better (Pippen/Horace Grant/Zen Master), he started winning ships. Just like everyone else. Also doesn't hurt that he was the GOAT of course.

Here's what Jordan and the Bulls did in the playoffs in the three years prior to Pippen/HG becoming starters for the Bulls:

85- Jordan- 28/6.5/6, PER-26, TS%- .592, Bulls lose 3-1 in first round
87- Jordan- 37/5/5, PER-30, TS%- .562, Bulls swept first round
88- Jordan- 35/6/5.5, PER-31.7, TS%- .603, Bulls lose 4-1 2nd round
(Pippen/Horace both rookies, both come off bench)

And after

89- Jordan- 32/8/8, PER-31, TS%- .601, Bulls lose in EC finals
(Pippen/Horace both become starters)
91-93- Ownage

Sure seems like there's a correlation there. Also, you point out that Kobe won his last ship when he was old, but neglect to mention that 3 of MJs ships came when he was old and past his prime, and when he was younger (and better), he got bounced early in the playoffs every time. That is, until he got help.

and Jordan didn't win rings in 4 of his best 5 seasons as an individual player, didn't hurt to get a HoF top 50 alltime sidekick lol

BTW, despite being possibly my #1 player ever to build around if I was starting a franchise, Shaq's track record isn't that impressive when he's not playing with an elite SG. Just sayin.

You keep saying this, but it's not very accurate.

00 is still young Kobe with a somewhat reduced role. 01-02 Kobe is in line with his prime. 27/5/5 with a PER of 24 isn't just some sidekick who's along for the ride.

lol

Indeed.

lakers fans continuing their AIDSathon.

Ok,

Jordan doesn't get to use that argument either

24 PER's lol.

Meh I looked up his TS, eFG, and put some USG stats in there a while back and it came up with 30 results in those years. Assuming they could've likely downgraded from Kobe and still won, there were like 15 other players they could've put there to win as well

You two have fun.

Yea, I'm not saying Kobe sucked. I'm saying his "best" years didn't win him any RANGZ. Because no one's best years do that alone. LeBron almost proved that wrong with the one finals run, but had no chance in the end.

Anyone using RANGZ to prove anyone is better is stupid. The only way you can bring that in, IMO, I guess is if it was like someone brought up before. If the team was championship-caliber and only lost because the #1 option in question falters and plays horribly for like 6 years, the knock him down a notch.

But RANGZ to prove how good someone is seems worthless. I think most intelligent posters already know this, so I'm probably not arguing with anyone but the dumb ones at this point.

I admit I was wrong about Jordan being able to use the argument though, and change my stance from him to no one. (I guess someone like Hakeem might have counted, but eff him)

Yea, even Bron's run isn't too surprising to me. The first two teams they beat were 41 win teams with negative PDs. Kobe's two 1st round exits were against 54 and 61 win Suns teams.

HOWEVER, the Detroit series must be mentioned. He was a monster from game 3 on in that series, and I will give him props accordingly. Game 5 in Detroit. Just lol.

jmill 4 pres!!

meh i'm a garnett fan but i don't see how hes better than any of my top 9 which i listed previously, his TS% leaves a ton to be desired (54.8% career) and while his turnovers numbers are very good so are other elite bigmens. obv his passing is sick but his passing alone isn't enough imo.

like how he is better than david robinson who was 9th on my list for example? drob 58.3% career TS, same turnover numbers, drob was a much better scorer during his prime too with a much higher ppg while also being more efficent and as great as a defender as kg is drob was prob slightly better. both were beast rebounders and while kg's numbers are slightly higher he played with 0 other rebounders which inflates his rebounds a bit especially since robinson's 2 lowest rebounding years in the middle of his career came when he was playing alongside rodman. only edge kg really has is passing with a slight edge in rebounding, not enough to make up the bigger difference in scoring and the slight difference in defense imo

yea i got so tilted when idiots say oh lebron's team is better than kobe's and use wins to back it up, lol the lakers cast is a legit championship contender and is stacked, the cavs cast is far worse. the only reason the cavs have more wins than the lakers for the past 2 years is cause lebron >>> kobe

if lebron wins it all this year with the crap championship contending cast he has it will be one of the greatest accomplishments in all of sports history

#1 reason kobe is drastically overrated, gather around and listen children

it's cause he constantly takes the toughest shots i've ever seen, yeah he makes a good amount of them so it makes it look to the casual viewer like hes goat. however when u look at the stats u realize kobe is not that impressive, his 55.7 career TS% is awful to be considered an all time great offensive player

there is way more value in creating an easy shot for urself like all the true great scorers constantly did than creating a hard one like kobe does. this isn't a game of horse, this is basketball. and thats why pretty much all the great scorers all have at least 58+ TS% (and most have 60+%) which is a huge gap between them and kobe.

Yes. Kobe > Oscar imo, but both are not top 10.

I'll take shack. It's my personal preference

Yea I think Oscar is >>>>overrated

???


schwallie, this is sort of what i was getting at wrt my post about duncan. lebron winning a ship this year would be sick when you compare his supporting casts to those some of the teams he will have to beat. duncan's supporting cast was kind of trashy in 02-03

NBA Eastern Conference Playoffs: Cavaliers vs Celtics


in case anyone forgot. i like celtics to win tonght.

well yeah now that the absurd 3day break is over we might be able to get back on track lol

BOS is -1 tonight. What would be the spread if Lebron was 100% healthy. Cavs -2?

well, he had very low WIM ldo

Proof::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Mi...asketball_team

i dont know whats more incredibly tilting the people that use the phrase 'best closer in the game' to describe kobe or the haters that always immidiately link that ****in 82games chart as if a sample size of 50 shots all of a sudden means something when it supports your argument