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Old 02-25-2017, 10:13 PM   #176
CalledDownLight
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Ingram was a worse player than Tatum is and I'm not even sure Ingram's potential is higher than Tatum's is.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:20 PM   #177
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Well I'm glad we got this sorted out early.

lol
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:25 PM   #178
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

1. Ball
2. Jackson
3. Isaac
4. Fultz
5. Meh
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:16 PM   #179
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Im on the Lonzo Ball #1 overall bandwagon

Hes amazing
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:21 PM   #180
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Ball seems like a terrible defender and somewhat lazy, no? Won't deny his vision and passing and can obviously score too.
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:25 PM   #181
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

any chance Malik Monk is still growing? He seems like he could potentially be a transcendent scorer, but is a little small for a 2 guard.

I've been more impressed by him than anyone else I have watched this year.
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:34 PM   #182
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Anyone with a BBIQ north of Swaggy P. can see Ball is the best player in the country.

Don't mistake effortless smooth with lazy: he's long, agile, gets tons of boards/stocks, and can lockdown when needed (see his absolute silencing of Dillon Brooks recently when he switched on him in the 2nd half).
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:44 PM   #183
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Anyone with a BBIQ north of Swaggy P. can see Ball is the best player in the country.

Don't mistake effortless smooth with lazy: he's long, agile, gets tons of boards/stocks, and can lockdown when needed (see his absolute silencing of Dillon Brooks recently when he switched on him in the 2nd half).
I'm not saying he's not the best player in the country, but he seems to get caught offguard and take tons of possessions off on defense or just stand still when he's off the ball on offense. Its one thing if you're playing 3-4x a week with all the travel and the faster pace and more possessions in the NBA, but its another in college where you play twice a week and don't have long roadtrips and play fewer possessions.

If he can be a lockdown defender why doesn't he do that every game? I'm not sure of his work ethic. His talent is beyond question though.
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:49 PM   #184
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Something else that watching games shows: he gets lots of contested boards, chase down blocks, etc. It's going to translate to the NBA really well unless his shot just completely disappears.

He takes some plays off, sure. But that's because he carries such a huge load on O, and needs to avoid foul trouble b/c the team literally is NIT quality when he's off the floor.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:03 AM   #185
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Hey guys, I just had this thought. Would love your commentary.

Hypothetical:

Let's say Boston lands a top 2 pick and gets either Ball or Fultz

Shouldn't they be offering the BKN '18 pick + BOS '17 pick + ? to move up to either 3rd or 4th slot?

Here are my thoughts: the '18 draft doesn't look that exciting beyond the insanely touted Luka Donkic. Having the '18 BKN pick is looking like maybe a 15-25% chance of landing him depending on how you view the future tank potential of teams like the Kings/Lakers/Mavericks/Heat(?).

BKN will probably fare a little bit better next year assuming Lin is healthy (he helps them a TON) and they'll sign some middling guys that will keep their floor higher than the process-era 76ers. A lot of it hinges on the Brook Lopez trade, if that ever happens. There's a chance some teams could be worse, that's basically the gist of what I'm saying.

I'm of the opinion that Celtics firing one of their trade chips for a stud is kinda dumb as long as these Warriors exist, so really it's better to just give Brad Stevens two blue chippers and let him figure it out. The question is how valuable is that '18 pick (25% shot at a potential GOAT in Donkic) versus locking up Markkanen or Josh Jackson (I'm assuming they wouldn't pursue Monk).

What's difficult in this plan is figuring out how to build your roster for the future after doing this, but I'm of the opinion that if your 2017 picks are looking ROY-esque you need to sell the top next season on just about everyone, IT, Bradley, Horford, Smart, just blow that thing up and sell everyone except Crowder. Pile assets, rebuild with (Ball or Fultz) and (Jackson or Markkanen).

Thoughts?
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:05 AM   #186
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Re: 2017 NBA Draft

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markannen looks dope
Thanks.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:07 AM   #187
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

I mean, simple way of looking at it is we have seen this sort of thing before (donkic level talent in the euro. rubio).

Would obv rather trade up while staying comp and having three top 3 talents from drafts in Brown/Jackson/Ball.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:08 AM   #188
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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I'm not saying he's not the best player in the country, but he seems to get caught offguard and take tons of possessions off on defense or just stand still when he's off the ball on offense. Its one thing if you're playing 3-4x a week with all the travel and the faster pace and more possessions in the NBA, but its another in college where you play twice a week and don't have long roadtrips and play fewer possessions.

If he can be a lockdown defender why doesn't he do that every game? I'm not sure of his work ethic. His talent is beyond question though.
This was something I noticed tonight against arizona. Lots of standing near the corner off-ball. Seems really easily coachable though, it's not like he's taking posessions off. Could be the UCLA scheme. He does so many other things with such a high IQ.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:10 AM   #189
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Originally Posted by RebeccaTwigley View Post
I mean, simple way of looking at it is we have seen this sort of thing before (donkic level talent in the euro. rubio).
I don't mean to parrot dean, but dean wrote a good piece on that. Rubio's euroleague shooting was a huge red flag.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:11 AM   #190
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Going to take more then nets 18 and a celts first for a team to even consider trading this years 3 or 4 pick. Not only are the 3 or 4 picks good prospects this season theirs alot of value in a bad team getting a young player now and developing him rather then waiting a year.

If the nba was like the nfl where u knew the worst team picks first that 18 pick would be more valuable but even then got to be something said for just getting a Josh Jackson today over waiting a year for a prospect who may get injured or start showing warts or something.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:17 AM   #191
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Going to take more then nets 18 and a celts first for a team to even consider trading this years 3 or 4 pick. Not only are the 3 or 4 picks good prospects this season theirs alot of value in a bad team getting a young player now and developing him.
yeah, thats why I added + ?

I don't know how many more assets you have to throw at teams to get an EV-neutral trade.

I would assume something like BKN '18 + BOS '17 + Brown + either Bradley or Smart (not sure which is more valuable for 2017-2018 playoff run)

There's obviously an inflection point, my question is do you think this is feasible to land either Jackson or Markkanen or would you prefer to GAMBOOL on getting Donkic.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:19 AM   #192
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

I mean if you throw in front of me Smart/Brown/celts first/and 18 nets and im the lakers at 3 with my next pick going to philly i think im going to take it. Not sure thats even a deal you'd want to as a C's fan but yeah if that was actually on the table i think most rebuilding teams would take it.

Thinking about it though would be pretty absurd to be come into the next season adding Jackson+Ball/Fultz if you were the celtics.

As far as your is it feasible question. I mean most likely were just talking a real GM fantasy trade here. We never see trades like this happen with young talent and picks.

Its rare for a team to be as deep as the C's though with those kind of draft picks so who knows what could happen. Their is something to be said that the C's being so deep need to consolidate assets they have built up and this would be one way to do it. They didnt do it going after a big time player this trade deadline so maybe they do in the draft.

Last edited by yellowfever; 02-26-2017 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:25 AM   #193
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

rooting for the lakers to bink 1 and trade it DAR and Ingram to the pacers for PG13
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:27 AM   #194
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Lonzo is the best pg prospect I've ever seen
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:33 AM   #195
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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I mean if you throw in front of me Smart/Brown/celts first/and 18 nets and im the lakers at 3 with my next pick going to philly i think im going to take it. Not sure thats even a deal you'd want to as a C's fan but yeah if that was actually on the table i think most rebuilding teams would take it.

Thinking about it though would be pretty absurd to be come into the next season adding Jackson+Ball/Fultz if you were the celtics.

As far as your is it feasible question. I mean most likely were just talking a real GM fantasy trade here. We never see trades like this happen with young talent and picks.

Its rare for a team to be as deep as the C's though with those kind of draft picks though so who knows what could happen. Their is something to be said that the C's being so deep need to consolidate assets they have built up and this would be one way to do it. They didnt do it going after a big time player this trade deadline so maybe they do in the draft.
lakers is the exact sorta team you'd want to target in this scenario, they know they are getting paul george in 2 years and would love to stockpile some pieces around him since they can't use their 2018 pick.

i do honestly think this is a trade that the celtics could make, and should make. horford is getting to the wrong end of the aging curve. IT is a prolific scorer but a massive defensive liability in the playoffs. avery bradley is gonna look to get paid huge soon. marcus smart is good but his 3p% says longterm he is not gonna work. it's time to sell the top on these guys. give it 1 run, lose to the raptors in the conference semis, and blow it up.

additional point (and my final ramble). there is value to having guys on the same contract age and development timing. allowing stevens to coach up ball and jackson simultaneously from their rookie years onward has to have some tangible advantage to getting ball and having to wait a year to coach up a different rookie that figures to have a similar EV to jackson. the question in the EV equation is to what extent donkic would be worth the wait.
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:06 AM   #196
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Is there really a known advantage to coaching up two strong rookies at once or is that a theory? Seems a case could be made that it could negatively impact the coaching and training of both.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:21 AM   #197
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Should Harry Giles even declare for the draft this year? He has been complete trash and I don't see how he can be a top 10 pick but if he's even half as good as he was supposed to be he should be able to play himself into a top 3 pick next year.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:21 AM   #198
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

LONZO is a bust proof all-NBA player imo
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:22 AM   #199
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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LONZO is a bust proof all-NBA player imo


No such thing. Wasn't Greg Oden considered bust proof?
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:41 AM   #200
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

I mean everyone has injury risk but short of that there's literally no chance Lonzo is not a top 15 player at some point.
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