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Old 05-18-2017, 10:36 AM   #851
yellowfever
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Where'd you get some of your info? Fultz played JV at dematha his sophomore year and likely started playing basketball a long time before that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markelle_Fultz

I assume he grew up in the US not Africa and grew up playing ball.
Yeah i just edited that out i thought i read that in a article but it was just he started playing varsity late not that he started basketball late
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:41 AM   #852
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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i know this is hot taek city but i question fultz mainly for the decision to go to washington because he knew he'd get his shots up

its a different situation than simmons going to lsu since his godfather was on staff

but at the same time fultz busted his ass to go from high school JV as a sophomore to a top 5 player in his class a year later
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ball/96795006/

Sounds like he chose Washington because they were recruiting him before everybody else did.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:41 AM   #853
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Fultz is from Maryland, not sure why or how he ended up in Washington. Maybe he lived there for some time between being born and college but I doubt it. Washington is Washington state not D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6cafbf370082

Per this it's because their coach recruited him hard and was first to offer him.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:40 AM   #854
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Gotta question the BBIQ if you buy what Lorenzo Romar's selling
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:31 PM   #855
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Originally Posted by capone0 View Post
Fultz is from Maryland, not sure why or how he ended up in Washington. Maybe he lived there for some time between being born and college but I doubt it. Washington is Washington state not D.C.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6cafbf370082

Per this it's because their coach recruited him hard and was first to offer him.
yeah I do question his WIM a little, most people around the DC area expected him to end up at a blue blood but somehow he ended up across the country.

And you're spot on. Fultz obviously made a huge jump from sophomore to junior year but he also attended one of the best basketball programs in the country.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:08 PM   #856
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Yeah-- you can't just bash his usg without checking da eFG%

What other past freshman PG prospect is even close in NCAA eFG? CP3 was 57, steph 57.9-- Lonzo is 10 points higher than them. He could easily jack mid-range shots to increase his usage while still having a pretty good eFG, but instead he would take elite shots or find an elite shot for his teammates.

Consequently UCLA had the best team eFG% for any NCAA team since 2005, and this is for a trash coach who has never had a team with a top 20 eFG in any season. You can't knock him for not shooting more when he never misses for a death machine offense.

idk, this doesn't seem like a lock. i imagine you've seen the draftexpress video on his weaknesses as a halfcourt scorer/creator. idk that i agree w/all the issues cited as being major concerns as some of them will almost certainly improve, but there's something there*. ultimately, i think the passing savvy and general bball smarts are enough to limit bust potential but i'm not seeing the lock stud.

i'll counter the question of who else had comparable efg% by asking who else got a similar # of transition opportunities? not to knock him for being great in transition, but that's not going to propel him into elite nba status. guys like cp3 or curry used an enormous # of possessions in college, and played a in halfcourt a lot, so aggregate efficiency comparisons aren't appropriate. people questioned paul's scoring as well, but he had also demonstrated the ability to beat defenders and get to the rim. ball isn't good at creating in pnr or 1v1, which is a real concern in terms of projecting an elite offensive guard. that said i think he has the potential to be a great pnr player giving his passing instincts



*also idk what his jumpshooting #s look like off the dribble in halfcourt but the vid cites his midrange shooting as a weakness. granted i do recall you saying something about him having good off the dribble shooting #s, albeit in a small sample. do you have synergy #s on transition vs halfcourt splits?


edit: to clarify i agree ball is a top 2 pick. dunno who i prefer between him and fultz though, but i'm just talking about what i think of him as a potential all-nba type player
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:15 PM   #857
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Y'all are making me reconsider my Ball hate.

But he'll be a Laker so I'll continue to hate anyway.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:24 PM   #858
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Ball to the Lakers is the stone cold lock of the century.

Only thing up in the air is if Ainge hustles Magic to trade up to the #1 slot.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:54 PM   #859
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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idk, this doesn't seem like a lock. i imagine you've seen the draftexpress video on his weaknesses as a halfcourt scorer/creator. idk that i agree w/all the issues cited as being major concerns as some of them will almost certainly improve, but there's something there*. ultimately, i think the passing savvy and general bball smarts are enough to limit bust potential but i'm not seeing the lock stud.

i'll counter the question of who else had comparable efg% by asking who else got a similar # of transition opportunities? not to knock him for being great in transition, but that's not going to propel him into elite nba status. guys like cp3 or curry used an enormous # of possessions in college, and played a in halfcourt a lot, so aggregate efficiency comparisons aren't appropriate. people questioned paul's scoring as well, but he had also demonstrated the ability to beat defenders and get to the rim. ball isn't good at creating in pnr or 1v1, which is a real concern in terms of projecting an elite offensive guard. that said i think he has the potential to be a great pnr player giving his passing instincts



*also idk what his jumpshooting #s look like off the dribble in halfcourt but the vid cites his midrange shooting as a weakness. granted i do recall you saying something about him having good off the dribble shooting #s, albeit in a small sample. do you have synergy #s on transition vs halfcourt splits?


edit: to clarify i agree ball is a top 2 pick. dunno who i prefer between him and fultz though, but i'm just talking about what i think of him as a potential all-nba type player
he has 35 off the dribble halfcourt jumpshot attempts with a 67.1% eFG. This is in large part bc 16 of his 17 makes are from 3.

mid-range game isn't a weakness. he only has 4 attempts from mid-range and 4 from short range because he knows he can create a higher quality shot. not fair to say he's poor from that range when he's making NBA 3's off the dribble.

fwiw according to synergy he had a higher eFG% in halfcourt (66%) than transition (64.5%). not sure how that adds up bc his overall eFG was 67.3%. But any way you slice and dice it he is an outlier of efficiency. he likely ran hot on halfcourt 3's (42.9% on 154 attempts) but even if you regress his HC 3P% to 36% his HC eFG is still a rock solid 59.3%

of course he won't be able to feast on high quality shots in the NBA like he did in NCAA, but there's no history of a prospect doing remotely what he has done wrt individual eFG or team offensive success so i don't think you have to take it with too many grains of salt
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:58 PM   #860
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

at this point it seems like the celts would be making a huge mistake taking ball, even if ball turns out to have the better career.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:04 PM   #861
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

I wonder if there is a way for the Celtics to trade the #1 pick to the Lakers for Russell and the #2 pick.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:06 PM   #862
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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I wonder if there is a way for the Celtics to trade the #1 pick to the Lakers for Russell and the #2 pick.
Matters if they want Ball really bad and for some reason they think someone will trade up and take Ball or if the Celtics will take him. If they don't; I can't see the Lakers who have limited positive assets; trading a positive asset for assurance they can get their guy when it's likely they'll get him at 2.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:09 PM   #863
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Grunching. How likely is Dennis Smith to Mavs?
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #864
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

So Portland with 3 1st round picks, no talks of them trying to trade to move up or out of the draft?
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #865
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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I wonder if there is a way for the Celtics to trade the #1 pick to the Lakers for Russell and the #2 pick.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:12 PM   #866
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

would laugh so hard if the Celtics get Magic to trade up, when calling any bluff about them wanting anything to do with Lavar is the lolobv move

0% chance that'd ever end well in Boston
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:14 PM   #867
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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at this point it seems like the celts would be making a huge mistake taking ball, even if ball turns out to have the better career.
Ball is pretty obviously a better fit in Boston than Fultz.

It would be a minor tragedy if he ends up with 19th ranked 3pt FGA LA, as opposed to 3rd ranked 3pt FGA BOS.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:50 PM   #868
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Ball is pretty obviously a better fit in Boston than Fultz.

It would be a minor tragedy if he ends up with 19th ranked 3pt FGA LA, as opposed to 3rd ranked 3pt FGA BOS.
Ball may be a better fit in a vacuum but if the Celts end up taking him, they'll be taking on someone who has no desire to play for them, and the headache involving his douchebag dad is just way too much. If Ball was the absolute clearcut #1 and Fultz was a distant second, then maybe you risk it, but it's close enough that I think the Celts have to just roll their eyes and grab Fultz.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:02 PM   #869
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

I understand the sentiment.

Just thinking basketball though: a Zeke/AB/Zo/Jae/Al 5 out offense sounds so sick.
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Old 05-20-2017, 02:05 AM   #870
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Ball may be a better fit in a vacuum but if the Celts end up taking him, they'll be taking on someone who has no desire to play for them, and the headache involving his douchebag dad is just way too much. If Ball was the absolute clearcut #1 and Fultz was a distant second, then maybe you risk it, but it's close enough that I think the Celts have to just roll their eyes and grab Fultz.
he'll change his mind pretty quick when he's running the 2nd unit on a 50 win team as the lakers continue to barely crack 20 wins.

additional thing that i'm sure is coming up in the Ball family. It's hard to build a "Big Baller Brand" when Paul George comes to town and steals the spotlight and your EV is like the 2016-2017 blazers. Meanwhile in Boston you have a perfect path to being "THE MAN" for a top seed in like 3 years or whenever LeBron starts aging.

the kobe -> nets anecdote is one i always go back to. they bluffed the nets bigtime threatening kobe going to italy. he would not have gone to italy.

would absolutely take ball in the celtics spot. you're combining one of the highest bball IQ CBB players ever with the best coach not named popovich, seems like a slam dunk. maybe he's not a superstar but with a PG on the level of Kidd/Nash you are basically locked into 10 years of deep playoff equity given you've got Ainge/Stevens.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:10 AM   #871
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Or the Celtics just take Lonzo and tell Lavar to STFU because rookies don't get to pick their team and then Lonzo + Brad ship rangz
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:44 AM   #872
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Nah. Kobe picked the Lakers. Ball will too.
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:49 PM   #873
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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Or the Celtics just take Lonzo and tell Lavar to STFU because rookies don't get to pick their team and then Lonzo + Brad ship rangz


This isn't going to happen though.

Would be hilarious to see how Lavar would react though.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:21 PM   #874
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

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he'll change his mind pretty quick when he's running the 2nd unit on a 50 win team as the lakers continue to barely crack 20 wins.

additional thing that i'm sure is coming up in the Ball family. It's hard to build a "Big Baller Brand" when Paul George comes to town and steals the spotlight and your EV is like the 2016-2017 blazers. Meanwhile in Boston you have a perfect path to being "THE MAN" for a top seed in like 3 years or whenever LeBron starts aging.

the kobe -> nets anecdote is one i always go back to. they bluffed the nets bigtime threatening kobe going to italy. he would not have gone to italy.

would absolutely take ball in the celtics spot. you're combining one of the highest bball IQ CBB players ever with the best coach not named popovich, seems like a slam dunk. maybe he's not a superstar but with a PG on the level of Kidd/Nash you are basically locked into 10 years of deep playoff equity given you've got Ainge/Stevens.

Paul George is hardly Kobe/LeBron as far as brand goes. If Ball is 1A to his 1, he can still sell the big baller brand and all that. It isn't like he is just going to be a Pau Gasol/Kyrie level sidekick on those teams.

And clearly going to LA is the best possible thing for Big Baller Brand. His dad may be a little nuts but that is why he is salivating at the idea of him going to the Lakers.

Obviously Ball can't choose where he goes but it is a little risky for the Celts to draft him and then he is gone in 5 years. Especially with 2 teams in LA to possibly go to.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:32 PM   #875
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Re: NBA Draft 2017

Big Ballers have brand penetration beyond one market.
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