massive? you guys are terribly overrating bruce bowen

Crunchy is right. Bowen was a great piece in the right system, but I think he's a result of circumstance as much as talent

POP GOAT

hmm

Chad Ford has McGary going 12 to Portland.
GR3 15 to the Bucks.

Maybe in the 2000 draft which featured Martin. Otherwise, god no would you want Bruce as a top 5 pick. Most teams can't play that well 4v5 on O. Spurs obviously did pretty well. If Bowen was a little better on O, maybe he would be a top 5 pick in most drafts but Bowen is a 0 on O and took almost 6 seasons to establish themselves.

Why is McGary's age a factor? I get the potential thing irt freshman and seniors, but an older freshman seems the same.

Evaluating Bruce Bowen is tough because so much depends on the team/system/coach he ends up with. On a crappy team that isn't well coached, his lack of offensive skill will be exposed big time and the defensive system won't even highlight his strengths. In the right system(the Spurs) his 3point shooting can make him a reasonable offensive player. Remember he lead the league in 3 point % one year. And his defense in that system was top 5 for every single year of his prime.

To a team like the Spurs I absolutely think Bruce Bowen is more valuable than the #5 pick this year. However to most lottery teams I would assume they'd prefer the high upside youngster they could get at #5.



Regardless the point is that Oladipo has the potential to:

1. Provide defense like prime Bruce Bowen
2. Be an efficient offensive player who is an above average #3 option or solid #2 option in certain lineups.
3. Unlike Bowen, not take so long to adapt/find the right system and do all this for many many years.


His downside is probably something like a solid 7th or 8th man. Personally I think that all adds up to a pretty good prospect. Certainly hes not going to be a 25+ppg scorer ever, but for a team like the Wizards that already has that guy Oladipo is a really interesting prospect.

Bruce Bowen was essentially a bigger Thabo Sefolosha. Would you redraft Thabo into the top 5? Thabo was the Bargnani draft, one of the all-time weakest drafts, and even then there's no way. Good wing defenders are role players. You need one to contend but if you're willing to accept Bruce Bowen level offense (dude never had a usage over 15 or and only cracked double digits in PER his rookie year and never again) they aren't difficult to find.

Since VO is shorter than Bowen, Thabo is actually a much better comparison, they are almost exactly the same size(fwiw Thabo guards 3s just fine, and VO from the eye test has significantly more athleticism).

I don't know enough about VO to know if Thabo is his floor or his expectation, but it's gotta be the floor if he's going top 10, much less top 5. Is he really that bad on offense?

Oladipo was great offensively this year. He's not going to be a primary option but he's nowhere near a zero like Thabo or Bowen

bowen was very useful for the spurs and would likely be trash on most other teams, esp crappy teams. but, plenty of guys who flame out with other teams would be great on the spurs too. likely better than bowen. the spurs maximized bowen. but they would maximiz the 5 too. and, almost always, the 5 has a ton more talent and upside than bowen.

why is oladipo considered clearly better than otto porter? porter has a sick body and was quite efficient.

according to who?
I thought everyone thought Porter>Oladipo.

according to this thread and draftexpress.

amazing to me if trey burke comes off the board before Shabazz or Alex Len.

why is he a top 7 pick.

i gotta think len rises super fast. im thinking he goes 2 or 3. dude has a ton of attributes. like, i dont see how u pass on him at 2.

porter is slow as **** and doesn't have much athleticism despite being v long and skilled

oladipo obv has more offensive potential than lolbowen. oladipo seems significantly more explosive and a better ballhandler than either. shooting is a bit unknown but if he can be a competent 3pt shooter in the nba his floor is really high (he'd basically be thabo)

i think his bh is what is suspect-- he seems to have elite finishing/explosion but is pretty iffy with the left and in traffic. his shooting has been great over a small sample, though i don't know how many of those are actually off the dribble or w/e, i'd imagine he's working on his release a fair bit and getting more comfortable in situations other than "catch and shoot"

idk about the explosion/finishing, do you have link where he shows it? seems like a lot of his finishes are weird below the rim type stuff, and he seems to dunk infrequently for guy with his length

he's quicker than those guys and more athletic, but his offensive skill is equal to those guys, not superior at all.

if a guard has no handle, he can't be a good offensive player on the next level. and oladipo can't dribble.

he's what we call "oc".

His ball handling is fine. You are what we call "wrong"

probably because of how sick hes been this year as a sophomore:

Oladipo this year(junior year): 13.6 ppg on 67.1% TS playing in Big Ten
Bruce Bowen junior year: 14.6 ppg on 52.6% TS playing in Big West


Over reliance on the eye test and ignorance of stats continues to produce poor analysis imo. Oladipo put up absurdly efficient scoring numbers in the best conference in the nation.


He was only a freshman, but just as a point of comparison:

Michael Kidd Gilchrist last year: 11.9 points on 57.0% TS

he is going to crush the predraft workouts

Porter has that old man game, he's really grown on me the more clips I watch

Simmons called Mitch a homeless mans Lee