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08-05-2010 , 11:48 PM

#1576

72off

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 69,805

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingRat

Chill out. Do something positive...

NEVER!!! (on both counts)

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08-05-2010 , 11:48 PM

#1577

ClarkNasty

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 35,397

Unlikable doesn't = bad pick or invalidate what made them great nor how incredibly adaptive they've been, nor his work in terms of staying relevant and popular.

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08-05-2010 , 11:48 PM

#1578

tchaz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 14,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

I'd almost go the opposite direction. I'm not dismissing the 80's entirely, ... , but that was a horrible era for rock music in particular

just wow levels of levelelling itt

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08-05-2010 , 11:49 PM

#1579

Geddy Lee

Good Ol' Canadian Boy

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 25,371

Quote:

Originally Posted by tchaz

Well, hard to know what you mean, but there are at least two, no three, bands from, say, Manchester, of that epoch and ilk who are much much much bigger. Just incomparably. (Except for US sales. :?)

lol, c'mon dude. I know the one band you're talking about and that one album is incredible. But being the biggest band in the world for 6 months doesn't come close to the domination that U2 enjoyed throughout the decade...even if it was somewhat hollow, imo.

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08-05-2010 , 11:51 PM

#1580

loosekanen

USA#1, Oh Yeah!

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 27,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUntouchable

I think you guys have done a really good job of arguing why Babyface is a great asset to have in this thing. The pick melted my face and definitely taught me something about a guy I hardly knew. I'm definitely going to check out some of his music and I think I'm going to like it.

With that said, I still don't think that justifies how early you took him since I'm pretty sure you could have gotten him later and there are still some really iconic guys still out there.

Didn't 72o take him? So two people at least were considering it. Vix just posted something asking for advice and I shot him an idea about Face mainly because I'm from Indianapolis and he's probably the best musician ever from my home town.

His whole NYC Unplugged 1997 album is a great one for me to listen to when I want good organic stuff that will help me chill. He does some of the stuff he wrote for other people/groups. I'm always a sucker for when the original artists record that ****.

I'm hoping there are more picks like that that generate interest in folks that people didn't know did as much as they've done.

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08-05-2010 , 11:52 PM

#1581

Geddy Lee

Good Ol' Canadian Boy

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 25,371

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL__72

You don't think he's become like a caricature of himself?

So has the entire rap industry but almost no one criticized any of the mc's drafted thus far in this light.

Quote

08-05-2010 , 11:53 PM

#1582

Geddy Lee

Good Ol' Canadian Boy

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 25,371

Quote:

Originally Posted by loosekanen

I'm hoping there are more picks like that that generate interest in folks that people didn't know did as much as they've done.

+1

This has been a blast so far. Good reading itt.

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08-05-2010 , 11:57 PM

#1583

loosekanen

USA#1, Oh Yeah!

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 27,838

One last Face story. I was in Korea in 2007 and got dragged along with my gf at the time to a concert of a Korean R&B group called Brown Eyed Soul. The concert was alright, but totally Korean with people sitting on their hands and waiving glo-sticks. Plus I didn't really understand anything that they were saying and they talked ~5 minutes between each song.

Anyway, suddenly the band busts into the first few chords of "I Care About You" by Babyface and I totally mark out like they had just started playing Hulk Hogan's ****ing music. The Koreans around me didn't know what to make of random white guy (only one there) going nuts for a random song 1 hour into a show after I'd sat on my hands waiting to get laid. In retrospect it makes me laugh.

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08-05-2010 , 11:57 PM

#1584

kitaristi0

l'étranger

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,139

grunching

OMG Bono a cross between Robin Williams and Tommy Wiseau. That is ****ing perfect. A+ nath.

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08-05-2010 , 11:58 PM

#1585

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

So has the entire rap industry but almost no one criticized any of the mc's drafted thus far in this light.

You really think so? I feel like rap has grown up a lot over the last 5 years. I mean, there has always been the pop rap element that is a joke but there are a handful of guys/groups that have continued to move the genre forward over the last few years. I started listing them but then realized they were all undrafteds.

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08-05-2010 , 11:59 PM

#1586

TheUntouchable

banned

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 23,975

Quote:

Originally Posted by loosekanen

Vixticator traded up take him.

Quote

08-06-2010 , 12:00 AM

#1587

loosekanen

USA#1, Oh Yeah!

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 27,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUntouchable

Vixticator traded up take him.

lol poor reading comprehension ITT (on my part ldo)

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08-06-2010 , 12:01 AM

#1588

Needle77

No Longer Protecting

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 43,882

Ok, I had one person lined up but I can't pass on someone anymore. Doing a writeup now. I'll give rat a little bit of time in between picks because I'm sure its going to generate some discussion.

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08-06-2010 , 12:02 AM

#1589

Geddy Lee

Good Ol' Canadian Boy

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 25,371

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL__72

I do but I'll be the first to admit I'm very biased.

It all just seems so fake to me, for lack of a better descriptive word. Meh, flame away.

Quote

08-06-2010 , 12:05 AM

#1590

Assani Fisher

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 48,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarkNasty

Re: Bono hate -
.

Nobody hates the pick. You're just going way overboard by saying he should've been top 10.

Quote:

just a classically predictable pick that 2p2 is bound to hate because he's easy to hate and the music isn't really in 2p2's wheelhouse (at least recently).

I like U2 just fine. Many people like U2 just fine...they're poppy, critically acclaimed, and hard to hate in general. The "well you just don't like their music so you're underrating them" argument doesn't have much of a basis here imo.

Quote:

Research I've seen suggests he should get the lion's share of the lyrical credit.

Almost every frontman writes the lyrics. Nobody disputes this. The lack of "OMG best pick ever" for the pick stems from the fact that he wasn't the sole songwriter, so you're either going to have to spend another high pick on undrafted guitarist or risk not being able to replicate the songs with Bono alone.

Quote:

Plus, he's undeniably creative and willing to adapt to technology. Dude is a master marketer, they have reinvented their sound at least twice,

Could make the same claims about Thom Yorke, who was very similar value imo(less commercial appeal, but better overall musician)

Quote:

and while we can reminisce about all the great bands of the 60's and 70's, from the 80's through today, there is only one band that can claim that kind of megastardom

But you're talking about the entire band now, which as I said, means you have to use at least two high picks to have in your studio. Instead of using two picks on U2, you could take two frontmen whose bands weren't quite as huge. 2 > 1, especially when we're talking about the early rounds where all of the picks/bands are really awesome.

Quote:

and that's in an era that is unquestionably more difficult to do so in (as evidenced by the lack of an answer to "who is the 2nd biggest band over the last 3 decades" question)

Today's era is hard to do this; The 80s were not. If u2 came out today, they wouldn't be such megastars. They're only megastars today because they were megastars in the 80s.

I think its a fine pick, but top 10 is a huge reach.

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08-06-2010 , 12:07 AM

#1591

tchaz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 14,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

I'm not sure what 6 months you nmight mean, but anyway ...

*) Dance/electronic music (amongst a multitude of other things) has been almost completely ignored here.

band (a): undrafted singer killed himself, band reinvented themselves. Biggest selling 12" ever, continued to today. 3-bands in one - old band, new band, new, new band, and side projects, oh well.

band (b): idiosyncratic sod leads prolific band which goes from rockabilly to hardcore-house. at times difficult to interpret lyrics but probably the best English language poet in the last 30 years. works with ~50 musos in this band, has many side collaborations. ...

band (c): crystalline music, understood the threads from US (pre)-history of rock and roll and their own culture to the then present and utterly dominated 82-87. Singer's solo project continues to mine the same vein. Probably the only mature treatment of being gay while being a pop star. The guitarist's side project have been lucrative and critically acclaimed elctro, & other projects.

In comparison: U2 - failed punks/new wave degenerated into stadium rock. wp, nh, etc. ... :headinhandssmilie: .

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08-06-2010 , 12:12 AM

#1592

Assani Fisher

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Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 48,128

Please don't reference bands in ways that some might understand who you are talking about and others won't. Thats even worse than coming out and naming undrafteds because at least when you name undrafteds you give everyone the information, whereas its obviously unfair to inform only some of the drafters of the person you're talking about.

We all want to name undrafteds sometimes when arguing points, but we all have to refrain from doing so.

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08-06-2010 , 12:13 AM

#1593

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geddy Lee

I do but I'll be the first to admit I'm very biased.

It all just seems so fake to me, for lack of a better descriptive word. Meh, flame away.

No need. I'm can't even defend some of the rap I really like. It's just having been a big fan for the last decade, I don't think it is moving in the wrong direction or anything.

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08-06-2010 , 12:17 AM

#1594

FlyingRat

banned

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 20,407

Round #3 Pick #52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmbw8OycJrE

Spoiler:

I know that Americans love to mock Céline Dion because she has a thick French accent and weird moves on stage, but you know what else they do? They buy her goddamn albums. She has sold over 50 million albums (4th best selling female artist) in the USA and over 200 million worldwide (2nd best selling female artist).

Céline was pretty much born to be a star. When she was 13, her manager (and now husband) René Angélil mortgaged his own house so he could finance her first album La voix du bon Dieu which went on to sell over 100,000 albums in Québec (which is a really small market, with a population of around 3 million people at the time). This was just the beginning of a great career in which she released 10 English albums and 13 French albums, including D'Eux, the highest selling French album of all time.

Regarding SALEZZZZZZZ, she has a pretty insane peak:

1993: The Colour of My Love 20M worldwide, 4.5M in the USA
1996: Falling Into You 33M worldwide, 10.8M in the USA
1997: Let's Talk About Love 32M worldwide, 9.5M in the USA
1998: These Are Special Times (Christmas album) 15M worldwide, 5.1M in the USA

She is pretty unidimensional, but she is the best at what she does. She's also not only a singer, she writes some of her songs and generally tries to get involved in the creative process of her albums:

Quote:

Also, she helped to compose many of her earlier French songs, and had always tried to involve herself with the production and recording of her albums. On her first English album, which she recorded before she had a firm command of the English language, she expressed disapproval of the record, which could have been avoided if she had assumed more creative input. By the time she released her second English album Celine Dion, she had assumed more control of the production and recording process, hoping to dispel earlier criticisms. She stated, "On the second album I said, 'Well, I have the choice to be afraid one more time and not be 100% happy, or not be afraid and be part of this album.' This is my album." She would continue to involve herself in the production of subsequent releases, helping to write a few of her songs on Let's Talk About Love (1997) and These Are Special Times (1998).

On the technical side, I hear she has a great voice. I'll quote Wikipedia even though I don't really understand what they're talking about, others might:

Quote:

Celine Dion possesses a five-octave vocal range, and is often regarded as one of pop music's most influential voices. In a countdown of the "22 Greatest Voices in Music" by Blender Magazine and MTV, she placed ninth (sixth for a female), and she was also placed fourth in Cove magazine's list of "The 100 Outstanding Pop Vocalists". Dion is often compared to Mariah Carey for her vocal style and to her idol Barbra Streisand for her voice. Upon her debut, many critics had welcomed her restrained vocal inflections, and she was praised for her technical virtuosity and intensity. Describing her voice, The New York Times writes, "Ms. Dion...is a belter with a high, thin, slightly nasal, nearly vibratoless soprano and a good-sized arsenal of technical skills. She can deliver tricky melismas, produce expressive vocal catches and sustain long notes without the tiniest wavering of pitch. And as her duets [...] have shown, she is a reliable harmony voice"

Some of my favorite songs from her:

I'm Your Angel (feat. UNDRAFTED CHILD RAPIST)

It's All Coming Back To Me Now

Destin

Pour que tu m'aimes encore

She has won a million awards as well: 5 Grammy Awards, 12 World Music Awards, 7 American Music Awards, 7 Billboard Music Awards, 21 Juno Awards, 39 Félix Awards and many others. Her songs have also won 2 Academy Awards and 3 Golden Globe Awards.

She has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame (and on the Canadian one too!) and has also won the Légion d'honneur, the highest award in France.

Her shows are insanely popular too, with her Las Vegas stint having grossed over $400M in 4 years.

Label so far:
-Elton John
-Billy Joel
-Céline Dion

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08-06-2010 , 12:23 AM

#1595

Avalanche333

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,341

I'm stunned that FR of all people would select Celine Dion.

Last edited by Avalanche333; 08-06-2010 at 12:24 AM. Reason: note: not actually stunned.

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08-06-2010 , 12:24 AM

#1596

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,499

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

/edit drunk. It actually fits that label. $$$$$$$$$$$$$ Still hate her.

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08-06-2010 , 12:26 AM

#1597

Assani Fisher

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Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 48,128

Theres another person who I thought would've been an awesome fit with Joel/Elton

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08-06-2010 , 12:27 AM

#1598

Needle77

No Longer Protecting

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 43,882

I knew it when you said you were taking a chick. She was my #1 female singer. Makes all the sense in the world and with those other 2 thats epic. I love that studio personally.

Hahaha, I want to post my pick instantly, this is going to be so much fun once I do it but I'll wait a little bit. Its going to be epic though.